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Robert Rowe
Heavyweight Member

Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 5364
Location: Chincoteague, Virginia

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:38 pm Post subject:

Grits Burgh wrote:

Quote:

Is in really important to be able to play (super)-fast ?

It is not just fast, but smooth. I leave it to you, listen to the runs by Roy Hargrove (at 3:12) and ask yourself, wouldn't it be nice to play just like that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmJK8i0bV5o

Speaking for myself, this is why I practice for hours daily. It is why I am taking lessons.

Warm regards,
Grits

Meh.

Chet Baker ... Chris Botti.

"Wouldn't it be nice to play just like that?"
(in your own words, "Grits")
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Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member

Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:48 pm Post subject:

Grits Burgh wrote:

It is not just fast, but smooth. I leave it to you, listen to the runs by Roy Hargrove (at 3:12) and ask yourself, wouldn't it be nice to play just like that?

The short throw valves aren't the reason it's smooth. I'm sure it doesn't hurt, but it's not the reason.
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn

Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member

Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:51 am Post subject:

Grits Burgh wrote:

Quote:

If you have never tried one, I believe that it is worth adding to your list of flugels to try.

Lou,

Hi Grits

Thanks.

You are very welcome.

You make a very good point: instruments are very personal things. You cannot let the opinions of others sway you. I know what I am looking for and without trying a Bach, I'll never know if that is the right horn for me. I very much like the sound of the B&S; I don't think that I could possibly sound better on another instrument.

I fully understand. Not having played the B&S, I don't know how its sound compares to that of the Bach 183. Since the B&S flugels are small bored like the Bach (I fully understand that bore size is only one parameter), the sound could be on the same lines. All that I can say is that I am very happy with my flugel sound on my Bach 183.

I also really like the response of my flugel. Going off at a tangent for a moment (I hope that you don't mind and apologise for taking this thread momentarily off course), a month or so ago, I played a colleagues Yamaha 631 flugel in my Jazz band, having mistakenly left my flugel at home. Although a nice flugel, I felt that I had work with it to get my flugel sound. Being a larger bore, I felt that it could easily be over blown or played like a trumpet, and although I feel that I do have a good approach to flugel, I felt that I had to work harder with the Yamaha flugel to maintain my flugel approach, whereas my Bach flugel possibly owing to its smaller bore, seems to encourage me to play it like a flugel. I have heard quite a few players play a Bach flugel like a trumpet, so it obviously can unfortunately be done, but I personally felt that the Yamaha flugel seemed to encourage me to try to put more air through, which appeared to fight with my personal approach to flugel. I'm not sure how relevant this all is, maybe it simply serves as the reason why I like my Bach 183 flugel.

However, I would like the feel and responsiveness to be more like my Bach. trumpet. It might be that a little thing like changing the concave valve buttons to flat might be all that it takes to adjust the feel.

I really don't know in this regard, as although there is obviously a feel to the valves, springs probably make more difference than valve buttons, and to be honest, in my opinion I feel that response is little to do with the valves, and more to do with the sum of all the parts.

...it could also be that I just need to practice on the horn more.

Without stating the obvious, no amount of practice will enable the feel and responsiveness to be more like your Bach trumpet, but it would result in you feeling more comfortable with the feel and response of your flugel.

Warm regards,
Grits

Warm regards to you too.

Lou

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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

dstdenis
Heavyweight Member

Joined: 25 May 2013
Posts: 2123
Location: Atlanta GA

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:22 am Post subject:

Grits Burgh wrote:

Quote:

Is in really important to be able to play (super)-fast ?

Nice. I also like Mr. Hargrove's performance of I Remember Clifford. Very lyrical and expressive. He was playing easy, without overblowing, yet still getting a resonant sound.
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EdMann
Heavyweight Member

Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 2481
Location: The Big Valley

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:45 am Post subject:

Robert Rowe wrote:

Grits Burgh wrote:

Quote:

Is in really important to be able to play (super)-fast ?

Meh.

Chet Baker ... Chris Botti.

"Wouldn't it be nice to play just like that?"
(in your own words, "Grits")

Stunning work as usual by Roy, and so sorry to lose Kevin just a couple of weeks ago. He was a remarkable vocalist.

ed

Grits Burgh
Heavyweight Member

Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 805
Location: South Carolina

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:52 am Post subject:

Quote:

And, then what ?

Why, then play like that, of course. Play like that primarily for my own enjoyment, but also to play like that on gigs.

Warm regards,
Grits
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy.

Grits Burgh
Heavyweight Member

Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 805
Location: South Carolina

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:37 pm Post subject:

Quote:

All that I can say is that I am very happy with my flugel sound on my Bach 183

.

Lou,

Well, you have piqued my curiosity. I'll give a Bach a go when I have the opportunity.

Warm regards,
Grits
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy.

vwag
Veteran Member

Joined: 17 Jul 2016
Posts: 180
Location: Denver, CO

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:26 pm Post subject:

I just happened to see a video of a Taylor Phat Boy, looks to have super short throws. Sample pic: http://www.trevorjonesltd.co.uk/Taylor_Phat_Boy_Flugel_Horn.htm

Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member

Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:39 am Post subject:

Grits Burgh wrote:

Quote:

All that I can say is that I am very happy with my flugel sound on my Bach 183

.

Lou,

Hi Grits

Well, you have piqued my curiosity. I'll give a Bach a go when I have the opportunity.

I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts if/when you have a chance to try one.

Warm regards,
Grits

Best wishes

Lou

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