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Essential or not?



 
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BBB1976
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:51 am    Post subject: Essential or not? Reply with quote

Hey folks

Was just wondering why CG's books are considered mandatory by many people who use them? When clearly they don't help everyone.
I don't wish to upset anyone, as I can see that people take it personally on here. Indeed, I always feel awkward about posting in this section, due to past responses.
Was just curious. Sincerely.

Best
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lexluther
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm...As a CG student maybe I can chip in here. These books are a part of our daily routine. I use Systematic Approach, Daily Trumpet Routines, and multiple other books on a daily basis.The CG pedagogy isn't going to be for everyone, but once you have gotten used to the long daily practices, there really is no substitute. There are lots of method books out there, all good, each pedagogy probably uses different ones religiously. Pedogogy's are like mouthpieces, choose the one that is right for you, and stick with it. Hope this helps, Happy Holidays to everyone here on TH!
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EricV
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adding to what Dan said, P6 of Systematic Approach lists six books to be used with Systematic Approach,

Clarkes Technical studies
Smith Flexibilities
Saint - Jacome Grand method
Colin Flexibilities
Arbans
Clarke Characteristic studies

Claudes pedagogy is not about only his books as you can see from this. His genius was in packaging up a complete set of practice routines, which if done correctly, will improve anyones playing, obviously to varying degrees depending on the amount of effort put in and whether or not lessons have been taken with a CG certified teacher

Merry Christmas to all
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gwood66
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Essential or not? Reply with quote

I am puzzled by your question. Is there something specific you do not understand about a teacher who associates themselves with Claude Gordon or his pedagogical concepts wanting their students to study out of the books he wrote? I am not trying to be flippant, but its like going to the Ford dealer and wondering why they are trying to sell you a new Ford. If you don't think the books work for you, don't buy them and find some that do.

BTW. When you paint with a broad brush, which it feels like you are doing in your post, it will have a tendency to upset people. So stand by.....and happy holidays.
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BBB1976
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:26 am    Post subject: Essential or not? Reply with quote

Each to their own gwood66 and good will to all men!
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solo soprano
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"There are two things a trumpet player cannot live without: Good food and Clarke's Technical Studies." CG

...and that's that!
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Pops
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The simple fact is that almost nobody ever reads the instructions and follows the practice routine.

They pick and choose with no idea what order things will work in and then they do too much of the high stuff that they like and none of the real practice like he suggests ie the exercises in other books.

Or even more to the point they fail to maintain ONE embouchure set through the entire practice session.

Proper FORM is important in exercises like in systematic approach but most people do funny stuff for the pedals and different funny stuff at the top of the arpeggios so the do 3 embouchures on one exercise, but he tells you that is WRONG.

Almost without exception when we don't get benefit from playing exercises then we did them with bad form and allowed embouchure shifts to happen so we developed nothing. The proper form (one embouchure set) is what makes the exercises create growth in us as players.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:26 am    Post subject: Re: Essential or not? Reply with quote

BBB1976 wrote:

Was just wondering why CG's books are considered mandatory by many people who use them? When clearly they don't help everyone.
I don't wish to upset anyone, as I can see that people take it personally on here. Indeed, I always feel awkward about posting in this section, due to past responses.
Was just curious. Sincerely.

Best


Claiming "those books don't help everyone" is like saying, "pushups and pull ups don't make everyone stronger". Anyone who practices out of the Claude Gordon books (and in the case of Systematic Approach, out of the six other classic trumpet books it assigns material out of) will get better, if they are practicing the material correctly. Unfortunately, that is a big "if". The vast majority of students that come to me, including some highly intelligent people (Physicians, Aerospace Engineers, and other professionals) have not been practicing the material correctly before taking lessons with me. That is one of the problems. The other, more prevalent one, is the people who expect almost instant results and quickly move on to another, and then another method, switching "methods" almost as often as they switch mouthpieces.

Sincerely,

John Mohan
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, don't you think that part of the problem might be that 1) some concentrate on Claude's book and ignore the auxiliary books, and 2) that they ignore seriously reading and absorbing his text?
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
John, don't you think that part of the problem might be that 1) some concentrate on Claude's book and ignore the auxiliary books, and 2) that they ignore seriously reading and absorbing his text?


Yes, absolutely!
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is more than one path to the top of the mountain.
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There is more than one path to the top of the mountain.


There is, indeed.

That said...

I have been working the CG program for about a year on my own. I just took my first lesson with Jeff Purtle, a Claude Gordon instructor. This is my experience thus far:
- The CG approach incorporates many of the standard, tried and true exercises (Arban's, Clark's Technical Studies, etc.).
- The lessons are organized to exercise the basic required techniques (tonguing, breath control, fingering, scales, etc.).
- You can learn a lot on your own using the CG materials as prescribed.
- However, you can really go down a wrong path on your own.
- If you add a qualified instructor to the CG program, you are likely to save yourself a lot of frustration. Jeff showed me some things that I was doing incorrectly. While his instruction focused on what might seem to be relatively minor details, after even just one lesson (albeit a 3 hour lesson), I can see that his help will pay off in a big way.

Regarding comments suggesting that there is some sort of danger associated with the CG methodology, remember that the bulk of the exercises are from Arban's, Clark, etc. The danger of doing things incorrectly is no greater using the CG methodology than it is using Arban or any other set of exercises.

Claude stressed practicing the right material, the right way, at the right time. A qualified CG instructor guides you to the right material, the right way and the right time.

Warm regards,
Grits
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grits Burgh wrote:
Quote:
There is more than one path to the top of the mountain.


There is, indeed.

That said...

I have been working the CG program for about a year on my own. I just took my first lesson with Jeff Purtle, a Claude Gordon instructor. This is my experience thus far:
- The CG approach incorporates many of the standard, tried and true exercises (Arban's, Clark's Technical Studies, etc.).
- The lessons are organized to exercise the basic required techniques (tonguing, breath control, fingering, scales, etc.).
- You can learn a lot on your own using the CG materials as prescribed.
- However, you can really go down a wrong path on your own.
- If you add a qualified instructor to the CG program, you are likely to save yourself a lot of frustration. Jeff showed me some things that I was doing incorrectly. While his instruction focused on what might seem to be relatively minor details, after even just one lesson (albeit a 3 hour lesson), I can see that his help will pay off in a big way.

Regarding comments suggesting that there is some sort of danger associated with the CG methodology, remember that the bulk of the exercises are from Arban's, Clark, etc. The danger of doing things incorrectly is no greater using the CG methodology than it is using Arban or any other set of exercises.

Claude stressed practicing the right material, the right way, at the right time. A qualified CG instructor guides you to the right material, the right way and the right time.

Warm regards,
Grits


+1

In reference to the saying about there being more than one path up the mountain, yes, certainly. There are players who became great studying with Vacchiano, Bill Adam, Caruso and many others. In my opinion, the CG path is the clearest and most reliable path up that mountain (albeit some of the others are pretty good, too).
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JVL
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'd mix Mike and Pops advices, with the benefice of Claude Gordon's material
There are short paths, long paths, and the EASIEST (most efficient) way(s) to do
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the ten years I studied with Claude I completely worked through a stack of books that is literally six feet tall or taller. That includes Arban, St. Jacome, Gatti, World's Method, a bunch of the Leduc published books and flexibility books by Irons, Smith, Colin, Del Staigers and many others. Of that Claude's actual material was maybe less than a tenth of what he assigned in sheer pages. The point I'm making is that Claude wrote his books to fill a need that wasn't met with other books. Most of Claude's books came from initial hand written material he tried on students and then improved and systematized it all over time. For example, I have hand written pages that later became Daily Trumpet Routines and I could see an evolution in the order he assigned the material.

Claude's first book, Systematic Approach was unique at the time with to just the idea of systematic developing ranges studies but showing how to use other material in a step by step manner. The point is not just Claude trying to push his own books. The point I hope everyone would get is the principles about how the mechanics of playing works and how to put it into a smart practice routine that allows the player to develop to play easily.

In the last couple years of studying with Claude before he died we used lots of things like a trombone flexibility study books and some other things just because the exercises caused me to develop and adapt to new interesting things.

Have fun practicing and think about how to do it and don't just aimlessly blow.

Jeff
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