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Lightheadedness while playing high.


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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adding to what I've already written, I'd hazard that a majority of trumpet players have had times when playing high/loud produced light-headedness or worse. I used to suffer tunnel vision and near blackouts in my youth. It's my understanding that blowing too hard for too long into a substantial constriction will cause most anyone to suffer these symptoms. If a player's approach is to blow ever harder into ever tighter pinched lips then I think this is inevitable. I think the solution is to replace the notion of pinching the lips together with a different manipulation that allows the lips to vibrate faster without the need to crush them together. I've seen some specific discussion and demonstration of different ways to do this on YouTube videos by Charlie Porter and Greg Spence (Mystery to Mastery).
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Iplaythetrumpet
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Joined: 15 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for your helpful replies, this past week I have been experimenting a little, and have deduced that I defiantly was trying too hard. I think that by simply laying back, and relaxing, I have become not only less light headed, but have noticed a significant increase in my endurance.

I think that I will try to drink more water generally, yet I have alwaysdrunk a glass each morning, being the first thing I do. Thanks again, everybody, I didn't expect so many helpful, in depth replies!
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INTJ
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Joined: 25 Dec 2002
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Location: Northern Idaho

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
Adding to what I've already written, I'd hazard that a majority of trumpet players have had times when playing high/loud produced light-headedness or worse. I used to suffer tunnel vision and near blackouts in my youth. It's my understanding that blowing too hard for too long into a substantial constriction will cause most anyone to suffer these symptoms. If a player's approach is to blow ever harder into ever tighter pinched lips then I think this is inevitable. I think the solution is to replace the notion of pinching the lips together with a different manipulation that allows the lips to vibrate faster without the need to crush them together. I've seen some specific discussion and demonstration of different ways to do this on YouTube videos by Charlie Porter and Greg Spence (Mystery to Mastery).


Yep!! Buzzing in the aperture tunnel like Pops speaks of works well me. It may seem backwards to roll out in the upper range, but it takes way less effort when the right setting is found.
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deleted_user_fdb91a0
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Joined: 03 Apr 1996
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop over-breathing and over-blowing. The increase in pressure causes the blood vessels to the brain to constrict, depriving it of the O2 needed to keep you conscious.

Contrary to an opinion held by many players and pedagogues, you don't need much air to play the horn correctly, assuming the rest of the system is working optimally (namely, the embouchure).
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Ed Kennedy
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Joined: 15 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Dr. Dave Harrison of Wedge MP fame is an MD. IIRC, he told me that blacking out when playing high notes is cause by too much air pressure in the chest cavity restricting return blood flow to the heart. When that sequence starts we have about six seconds before blackout, and the best way to fix it is by taking a breath and relieving the pressure


I experienced this many years ago, practicing upper register long tones. I woke up on top of my new Bach CL229. One more time a few years later, sitting on the high F# at the end of Hey Jude, fortunately there was a wall behind me to fall into. I think Dr. Dave has the idea.
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noahbenson
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Joined: 10 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a simple exercise: go up and down the 1st 5 notes of a scale starting in the higher range and go as high as you can. See if there's improvement in your lightheaded-ness once you've mastered this.
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bear30101
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Joined: 05 Sep 2015
Posts: 89
Location: Ga.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please watch the youtube videos of Jim Manley.(Approach to Air... etc.)
Then consider taking a lesson with him as have I.
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dkwolfe
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Joined: 01 May 2015
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Location: North of the sweet tea line

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

INTJ wrote:
Dr. Dave Harrison of Wedge MP fame is an MD. IIRC, he told me that blacking out when playing high notes is cause by too much air pressure in the chest cavity restricting return blood flow to the heart. When that sequence starts we have about six seconds before blackout, and the best way to fix it is by taking a breath and relieving the pressure.


You recall correctly. The problem comes from the air pressure in your lungs and throat causing confusion with the sensors in your circulatory system that regulate blood flow both to and from the brain. Those sensors (they are called baroreceptors if you're curious) are in both your chest (in the aortic arch) and in your neck (carotid sinuses). In the anatomy and physiology classes I teach, we talk about auto-regulation of blood flow to the brain, and that is really what is going on (and what the quote from Dave Harrison is talking about).

Here's a Wikipedia link that does a pretty good job of explaining it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroreflex

D

p.s. At the end of the first paragraph the link mentions "postural hypotension"; that's the spiny sensation you get when you stand up too fast.
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