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Bstradivarius
Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2017
Posts: 146
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
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 Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | Something for the OP to consider: there is a happy medium regarding the tightness of fit inside the case. Too loose and the horn can be damaged on even a short drop (when the horn inside the case comes to a sudden stop), too tight and slides can be warped/bent slightly.
Just my two cents, but as others have said, I don’t have a problem spending 2-400 on a case to protect a horn that might cost ten times that.
I once had a trumpet player remark that my Torpedo case is pricey, I said maybe, but a lot less expensive than what is inside it.
Brad |
Thank you. Regarding tightness, if I could solicit further comment, should I assume no tighter than I would hold it, or is there a measured amount of space between the foam/felt and instrument? Again, this is a $500 instrument too big or too small for any gigbag on the market. I know about protecting rotary valves. It is the tightness - though I do have an instinct for that. |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12659
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Bstradivarius wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | Something for the OP to consider: there is a happy medium regarding the tightness of fit inside the case. Too loose and the horn can be damaged on even a short drop (when the horn inside the case comes to a sudden stop), too tight and slides can be warped/bent slightly.
Just my two cents, but as others have said, I don’t have a problem spending 2-400 on a case to protect a horn that might cost ten times that.
I once had a trumpet player remark that my Torpedo case is pricey, I said maybe, but a lot less expensive than what is inside it.
Brad |
Thank you. Regarding tightness, if I could solicit further comment, should I assume no tighter than I would hold it, or is there a measured amount of space between the foam/felt and instrument? Again, this is a $500 instrument too big or too small for any gigbag on the market. I know about protecting rotary valves. It is the tightness - though I do have an instinct for that. |
I am not sure that "tightness" is really the only critical part of preventing damage when the case is dropped.
IMO, the issue is that if some of the horn is fully supported and some is not, the fully supported will stop abruptly and the non-supported parts will continue due to inertia.
Also if the tight parts are on the slides then the slides will stop and the rest of the horn will continue with the same result.
The use of different densities of foam can slow the thightly supported parts more gently and possibly mitigate the effects of inertia on the rest of the horn.
There are case makers who have done the research on this and those that have not. So if you are worried about drops, and you decide to purchase a case you would need to evaluate the case to ensure it will do a complete job.
I have considered using spray insulating foam to make the interior of the case. If one were able to completely wrap the instrument in a plastic sheet, not sure is saran wrap would be strong enough, one could fill the cavity of the case with foam, insert the instrument, close the case and wait for the foam to set.
That would allow for a tight fully supporting cavity. It would need to be split so that the case could be opened and might need some manual trimming/shaping to allow for a hinge movement.
If it were me I would do one side of the case at a time. I would also wrap the inside of the case with plastic so I could remove the foam to work on it.
So cast one side, carefully ensuring the horn is where you want it. Then cast the other side.
The only thing keeping me from trying this is the worry of getting that stuff on my horns. It is a pain to clean off areas where you don't want it. It is basically a glue. |
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oxleyk
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 4180
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| I know! Have the bell converted to a screw-on type. That will give you more room in the toolbox, but you'll need a spot to store the bell. |
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ghelbig
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Reno, NV
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | I have considered using spray insulating foam to make the interior of the case. If one were able to completely wrap the instrument in a plastic sheet, not sure is saran wrap would be strong enough, one could fill the cavity of the case with foam, insert the instrument, close the case and wait for the foam to set. |
The way sensitive equipment is packed for shipping is to:
Put a large plastic sheet in the box - large enough that it drapes over the sides.
Spray the expanding foam in then cover with another similar sheet.
Then the equipment is placed in, and the two sheets tucked down.
Another plastic sheet, more foam, then the top plastic sheet. These two sheets are tucked up.
The center two sheets allow the two halves to come apart.
Timing is everything - the bottom foam needs to have set/expanded "just enough" before the equipment is placed in.
But yeah, it should work for a trumpet. Start big and cut it down to case size when it's fully set.
Gary. |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Bstradivarius wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | Something for the OP to consider: there is a happy medium regarding the tightness of fit inside the case. Too loose and the horn can be damaged on even a short drop (when the horn inside the case comes to a sudden stop), too tight and slides can be warped/bent slightly.
Just my two cents, but as others have said, I don’t have a problem spending 2-400 on a case to protect a horn that might cost ten times that.
I once had a trumpet player remark that my Torpedo case is pricey, I said maybe, but a lot less expensive than what is inside it.
Brad |
Thank you. Regarding tightness, if I could solicit further comment, should I assume no tighter than I would hold it, or is there a measured amount of space between the foam/felt and instrument? Again, this is a $500 instrument too big or too small for any gigbag on the market. I know about protecting rotary valves. It is the tightness - though I do have an instinct for that. |
Good question (tightness), and because I really am unsure of that is why I would choose to buy a well made case. If your horn absolutely will not fit in anything on the market, I guess you could contact a company like Raw Brass about a custom made case.
If you’re intent on building your own, best of luck!
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12659
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ghelbig wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | I have considered using spray insulating foam to make the interior of the case. If one were able to completely wrap the instrument in a plastic sheet, not sure is saran wrap would be strong enough, one could fill the cavity of the case with foam, insert the instrument, close the case and wait for the foam to set. |
The way sensitive equipment is packed for shipping is to:
Put a large plastic sheet in the box - large enough that it drapes over the sides.
Spray the expanding foam in then cover with another similar sheet.
Then the equipment is placed in, and the two sheets tucked down.
Another plastic sheet, more foam, then the top plastic sheet. These two sheets are tucked up.
The center two sheets allow the two halves to come apart.
Timing is everything - the bottom foam needs to have set/expanded "just enough" before the equipment is placed in.
But yeah, it should work for a trumpet. Start big and cut it down to case size when it's fully set.
Gary. |
Now that you mention it...
One thing about that approach is that the voids where the slides are are not likely to be filled in.
Where wrapping the horn, instead of the sheet, would allow the foam to fill in around the horn. |
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Bstradivarius
Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2017
Posts: 146
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| So I've now got the materials and got an electric Turkey knife for $15. The materials (toolbox, foam, flanel, adhesive, etc.) are about $65 total. Again, this alto/bass trumpet is too big for a trumpet case, and too small for a trombone case. Furthermore, bass trumpet cases are too expensive for this $500 horn. I'll post step-by-step pics when done. |
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Craig Swartz
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 7770
Location: Des Moines, IA area
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Too big for trumpet case? Maybe you should just re-do the interior of an alto sax case... |
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Bstradivarius
Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2017
Posts: 146
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Craig Swartz wrote: | | Too big for trumpet case? Maybe you should just re-do the interior of an alto sax case... |
Also a GREAT idea. I see an old alto sax case for about $50 with shipping. Would look more case-like. Depends on the case. Not sure how you try before you buy. |
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Bstradivarius
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Joined: 01 Mar 2017
Posts: 146
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Mission accomplished. Took me about 6 hours of work, aside from gathering materials. I'm in about $82, and I can reuse the turkey knife. Since I am not a master seamstress, there are spots in the flannel where I was not able to make it look perfect. But this case will protect this horn. Is it good for drop protection? No, as always. Very ill-advised.
Again, this is a $500 horn that required a custom made inside. I would not have gone through this type of trouble were it suitable for a ready-made case. Custom cases are ridiculous prices, as our bass trumpet cases. Anybody wants pictures, I'm happy to send them. The electric turkey knife worked great for some of the bigger pieces. Trimming the foam edges was best suited for a Bowie knife and scissors. It was kind of like skinning a deer.  . Craftsmanship would improve with other attempts.
Materials used:
26 in. Kobalt toolbox $30
foam pieces $25
flannel fabric $5
Spray adhesive. $7
Electric Turkey knife. $15
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JacobLythgoe
New Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Just save up for a nice case |
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Bstradivarius
Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2017
Posts: 146
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Nah I'm good. Thanks for your approval however. |
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