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MP for Scherzer Piccolo



 
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tyler.slamkowski
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Joined: 03 Jun 2017
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Location: Muskegon, MI

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:34 pm    Post subject: MP for Scherzer Piccolo Reply with quote

What mouthpieces have worked best for you on the Scherzer piccolo, especially for high baroque chamber music (not big, modern symphonic works)? I currently use a Bach 7E, but I would really like to move to a truly dedicated piccolo trumpet mouthpiece, like a Stork or the Griego-Ashton 7P.
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JoeLoeffler
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Joined: 20 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bach 7E and Schilke 11Ax are the two most widely used piccolo trumpet mouthpieces. Some horns work better with one than the other.

What makes you think the 7E is not a dedicated piccolo mouthpiece? That it is not from a boutique maker? Lots of very experienced players like them just fine. (A Bach 7EW works especially well on the older Yamaha copy of a Schilke P5-4.)
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tyler.slamkowski
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Location: Muskegon, MI

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoeLoeffler wrote:
The Bach 7E and Schilke 11Ax are the two most widely used piccolo trumpet mouthpieces. Some horns work better with one than the other.

What makes you think the 7E is not a dedicated piccolo mouthpiece? That it is not from a boutique maker? Lots of very experienced players like them just fine. (A Bach 7EW works especially well on the older Yamaha copy of a Schilke P5-4.)


The 7E was originally for soprano cornet. I'd like something built specifically for piccolo trumpet with a trumpet shank. My 7E has worked fine, but after playing picc for a while now, I can tell it's not the best it could be for me (especially after testing some of my friends' Stork mouthpieces built especially for picc playing). Sometimes we outgrow what we start on!
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JoeLoeffler
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, “your” 7E was purchased for use with a cornet. Any Bach retailer can order a 7E on a trumpet blank. If you want to be extra-piccolo, spec the 117 backbore.
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Dan in Sydney
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As fas a mouthpiece choice goes, you have to decide --Do you want to explore the "European character " of this instrument, or are you happy sounding similar to a Schilke or Stomi or Yamaha piccolo. I've been playing and performing on my Scherzer since 1979 and have always felt that it needed a slightly deeper cup than my Schilke or Yamaha instruments. I've been using a Josef Klier (JK) Exclusive 5F or 6F and I feel this works for me.
The cup is a slightly different shape than a Bach 7E or a Schilke 11AX, slightly less bowled and a bit deeper. I find the intonation stable and the sound certainly rounded and less "Picc-like", but that's me, and your mileage may vary. I've also tried the Stork P pieces in the Scherzer, but I still much prefer the JK's. Good luck and enjoy the Scherzer---it's a wonderful horn!
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trumpjosh
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play the mouthpiece that came with it. No kidding. It's a B&S 7E. Plays great for me.
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tyler.slamkowski
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Joined: 03 Jun 2017
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Location: Muskegon, MI

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan in Sydney wrote:
As fas a mouthpiece choice goes, you have to decide --Do you want to explore the "European character " of this instrument, or are you happy sounding similar to a Schilke or Stomi or Yamaha piccolo. I've been playing and performing on my Scherzer since 1979 and have always felt that it needed a slightly deeper cup than my Schilke or Yamaha instruments. I've been using a Josef Klier (JK) Exclusive 5F or 6F and I feel this works for me.
The cup is a slightly different shape than a Bach 7E or a Schilke 11AX, slightly less bowled and a bit deeper. I find the intonation stable and the sound certainly rounded and less "Picc-like", but that's me, and your mileage may vary. I've also tried the Stork P pieces in the Scherzer, but I still much prefer the JK's. Good luck and enjoy the Scherzer---it's a wonderful horn!


I've heard the same thing over and over about using a slightly larger mouthpiece with the Scherzer, and I'm definitely pursuing a more European sound (that's why I ditched my long bell piccolo; just not interested in etching glass anymore). But even with the 7E, I feel like my F's and G's take a lot of unnecessary effort...so wouldn't a larger mouthpiece hinder that more? I've done the Fasch and the Telemann concerti, so I can roll in the high range. Just tougher than it should be, I think. Thank you for your thoughts!
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trumpet56
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would recommend a Breslmair piccolo mouthpiece that are made specifically for the rotary trumpet. There is a dedicated section on their website for piccolo mouthpieces.
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Dan in Sydney
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet56 wrote:
I would recommend a Breslmair piccolo mouthpiece that are made specifically for the rotary trumpet. There is a dedicated section on their website for piccolo mouthpieces.


Is this a theorietical recommendation, or have you actually played a Breslmair on your Scherzer? Just curious, because any real useful recommendations should come from experience, not from a webpage. BTW, the JK Exclusive line is also made with German trumpets in mind, and I've been playing mine for some twenty-five years.
Regarding the depth of the cup, it's not only the depth of the cup which has an effect on how the high register feels--it's the shape of the cup, the degree of taper in the throat and also the backbore which probably have more effect, as well as the size of the throat itself.
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoeLoeffler wrote:
Oh, “your” 7E was purchased for use with a cornet. Any Bach retailer can order a 7E on a trumpet blank. If you want to be extra-piccolo, spec the 117 backbore.


Not sure why the emphasis on "your" or why it is thought the OP purchased his 7E for use with a cornet, because he didn't say that. The 1956 Bach Mouthpiece manual says on page 28 that the E cup mouthpieces have Eb cups designed for Eb trumpet, Eb cornet, or alto trombone, and is also excellent for piccolo trumpets in high F or G. It doesn't mention A or Bb piccolo. Sure, our use of them has evolved, but it doesn't change that it wasn't originally designed for use with a Bb or A piccolo.

Per the current Bach Mouthpiece Manual, the 7E comes stock with a 117 backbore, so custom ordering it isn't necessary no matter the shank size.

If you want to fact check, you can get the 1956 manual from DonTen. He has been freely sending scans of it to anyone who wants it.

The current manual can be downloaded from a number of sites. I just checked it on Mouthpiece Express.

On a side note, some years back I tinkered around on a sterling silver Scherzer using a 7D with a 25 bore and 117 backbore and quite enjoyed the sound. It was much warmer and lyrical and less shrill than a 7E, and it was ridiculously easy to play. I realize tinkering is not significant play time, but it left an impression and desire that I haven't been able to raise enough money to realize. Just a thought.
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Andy Del
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="tyler.slamkowski"The 7E was originally for soprano cornet. I'd like something built specifically for piccolo trumpet with a trumpet shank. My 7E has worked fine, but after playing picc for a while now, I can tell it's not the best it could be for me (especially after testing some of my friends' Stork mouthpieces built especially for picc playing). Sometimes we outgrow what we start on![/quote]

Found playing on a 7E for years got me not far at all, so I share your feelings. What works for one person may not for another. I have ended up using a short shank mouthpiece for piccolo and they rock! Actually, I use the same mpc on all my Scherzers, and am very happy with it. The only catch for most, is that I'm playing on Monette mouthpieces.

So I'm using a short shank and backbone, but the same throat, cp and rim as my Bb/C mouthpieces. Why it works, I don't know, but it does. For me.

I also use a Blackburn A lead pipe, and a Callet Bb pipe (which was not made for it but has been bodgied up to fit) They have had a positive effect for me as well.

cheers

Andy
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trumpet56
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Joined: 16 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan in Sydney wrote:
trumpet56 wrote:
I would recommend a Breslmair piccolo mouthpiece that are made specifically for the rotary trumpet. There is a dedicated section on their website for piccolo mouthpieces.


Is this a theorietical recommendation, or have you actually played a Breslmair on your Scherzer? Just curious, because any real useful recommendations should come from experience, not from a webpage. BTW, the JK Exclusive line is also made with German trumpets in mind, and I've been playing mine for some twenty-five years.
Regarding the depth of the cup, it's not only the depth of the cup which has an effect on how the high register feels--it's the shape of the cup, the degree of taper in the throat and also the backbore which probably have more effect, as well as the size of the throat itself.


You make a good point . The answer is yes I have played Scherzer Piccolos as well as different makes and keys of Rotaries during my career including my favorite a Vintage Heckel. so mine is a general recommendation as well as a specific one. Not only are the Breslmair mouthpieces made with the rotary trumpet in mind they are also a three part modular system allowing the player to match Rim to Cup to Backbore. In my experience Rotaries a particulaly mouthpiece sensitive. My own preference is a Breslmair G7-B cup with an S Rim and a N Backbore. but as we are all individuals use whatever works for you.
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Dave CCM/SSO
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Joined: 21 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello!

Try the Pickett short shank piccolo trumpet backbore with their E or DE cup. They have many rim diameters to choose from. I have enjoyed this setup quite a bit. I use the 5 rim, but many like the 7 for piccolo.

Dave
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