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Comparing the current Kanstul Burbank to a Benge



 
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wbrenner
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Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Anaheim, CA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Comparing the current Kanstul Burbank to a Benge Reply with quote

I had a rather good playing L.A. Benge 5X that I lost when the trunk of my motorcycle fell off and got ran over on a freeway. I miss that instrument.
I received a call from a local music store a few months later, to let me know that a used (of course) Benge 3X was in the shop, and that I could have it for good price. It had been assembled by someone who had access to Benge parts, after Benge went out of business. I did not enjoy this one as much as the 5X, but it served me well enough for some time.

At the 2016 ITG conference, I tried some Burbanks, and the 5 star was the best fit for me. I did find that it took more effort to play, but it was noted by musicians and non-musicians that I sounded better on it than my current Benge. At least part of that could be because we were comparing the old 3 against the new 5. The 5 bell is a little less bright than the 3, which is good thing as I play mostly as an amateur lead player, using small mouthpieces. A month later, I tried the Burbank 5 again, and bought it, thinking that I would adjust to it. I gave it a fair chance, by not touching the old Benge for over a year. I still found it to be more work to play, whether I was playing something delicate, or a blazing lead part. The 'E' above high 'C' is difficult to slot especially if played in a passage (the 'F' slots a bit better), and I sometimes lose my buzz on quiet passages in the staff.

Has anyone had the chance to compare a current Burbank to a Benge? I don't know if my experience is typical, or if I have purchased a copy that is not typical of Burbanks. This is the only '5' star Burbank that I have had the chance to play.
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John Mohan
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to me that if you're comparing the ease of playing and/or slotting of a 3X to the 5X clone you are kind of comparing apples to oranges - they are two different horn designs. And if you are comparing the feel of your new Burbank 5* to the Benge 5X you have not played in years, that is stretching a subjective comparison to the max. You are not the same player today you were then (for better or worse) and memories can be extremely inaccurate.

I know the 5* is a clone of the 5X with the same design specs as the original Benge version. I have a student who recently bought a new Burbank 6*CG which is very close to, but not an exact duplicate of the Benge 6XCG trumpet (the Benge CG had a .468" Bore where as the Burbank version has the larger .470" bore that Claude originally wanted for his design). For what it's worth, he sounds to me like he is playing a Benge CG trumpet - nice bright sound (much brighter than his old horn).

I hope you grow to like that Burbank trumpet you have, and I am sure sorry how you lost your Benge 5X.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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trumpet.trader
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Joined: 02 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve had a couple of the new Kanstul Burbanks over the years. If memory serves they were from the late 80s or early 90s.

I had a 3* and a 5* and to my eyes, ears, and memory of playing them, they performed, looked, and sounded like LA Benge trumpets to me.

Every bit as light and bright and great projection and sound. A few details were a little different but they were great horns.

Sounds like your issue might be a valve alignment issue? Squirrely slots and air ball notes in my experience are often due to an alignment issue. If those felts are worn, or too compressed or have been saturated with oil or any other number of variables, they could out of alignment.

Since you’re so close, maybe a trip to Kanstul, or even a visit to Bob Reeves, or any other repair guy that does valve alignment work might be worth the visit.

Good luck, and for what it’s worth, I’ve had horns stolen and damaged before and I feel your pain! But I think you’ve got a great horn, every bit a Benge, and i hope you get that high E slot sorted. I know how frustrating that can be.
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The new Burbanks are very close to the old Benges. I've had the opportunity to get extended time with the 6X-CG and 3X+. With the latter, I even had a real Benge 3X+ at the same time for comparison.

They are not exactly the same and they don't play exactly the same. The Kanstul horns are a little more resonant than the Benges and so are more resistant, acoustically. They are probably built with tighter valve clearances than the Benges ever were, so they slot more securely. But the light, lithe feel of a really good, genuine Benge is not totally there in the horns I played. At least the 3X+ fell a bit short.

Then again, I've played a few Benges that were not good, either. I've played other Kanstul horns that seemed to be missing something. One of those is my current Wild Thing flugelhorn, which I first played right from the Kanstul factory. It was worrisome. Flip took it back and performed his usual Total Enhancement process on it and sent it back to me. It had turned into what I consider the finest playing instrument I've ever owned and in the top two I've ever played.

You won't go wrong sending the horn to Flip Oakes. He is very familiar with Benge and Burbank horns.
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wbrenner
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Joined: 31 Jan 2005
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Location: Anaheim, CA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you trumpet.trader, John Mohan, and shofarguy for your inputs.

Very soon after my purchase, I took my Burbank 5* to Flip Oaks for a valve alignment, and let him know that if it needed more, then do a full treatment. We stayed with the valve alignment.

I have tried two Benge 5X horns for a quick blow. The recent one was more secure when playing a lead line. I did not fully test the response at quiet levels, but the Benge did seem to play a bit easier. I asked the Benge owner for an opinion for how those two instruments (5X and 5*) sounded when I played them, and was told it was pretty close.
On the 'apples and oranges', I had originally mentioned that I thought the sound difference, when I first auditioned my Benge 3X and the Burbank 5*, could be influenced by the small differences in the bell, which is the only difference between a 3 and a 5, so I do appreciate what you wrote. Seems that I have verified that with my recent side-by-side blow of the 5X and 5*.

I was told by Mike Thomas, who markets Burbanks, that the valve throw was a bit longer on the Burbanks, with no further elaboration.

I had been told, in the past, that Benges were more sensitive to adjustments than some other brands. I had a minor repair done on my old Benge 5X, at the bell curve, having no expectation of it helping. I was surprised - it made a noticeable difference. Also...
A fellow that I occasionally played with is Benge player. He auditioned 25 Benges before he settled on his current blow. Hence, I considered that I may not have gotten the best example of the Burbank 5.

Shofarguy, you wrote " But the light, lithe feel of a really good, genuine Benge is not totally there in the horns I played." Pretty similar to what I thought that I was feeling.

Apologies for the wordy posts.
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trumpet.trader
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Joined: 02 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel your frustration through your posts, and I definitely empathize.

The good news is with the advent of the internet, trumpetherald, eBay, Craigslist etc there are so many great trumpets of every vintage and flavor available readily.

More specifically for whatever reason Benge trumpets don’t seem to command the premium that say a Schilke or Bach does (thankfully) and very clean examples of LA Benge trumpets can be found frequently for $800-$1200 for almost like new trumpets.

I’ve had many come through my hands, and when I needed to sell a horn, a Benge always finds a home.

If you just don’t think you’ll be satisfied until you get a horn to replace your 5X that was damaged I say...get yourself another Benge!

And if you gimme a day or so I can reach out to some of my collector friends and see if I can maybe help you find a clean 5X and I’ll send you a private message here and let you know what I find.
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