Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:48 pm Post subject:
jscahoy wrote:
Here's a post-shark-jump poll question: If there was a drug that would give you Maynard/Doc/Chase range, but would kill you in ten years, would you take it?
Ask me again when I'm 90. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away."
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2412 Location: Maryland
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:56 pm Post subject:
tanda wrote:
I really hate when drugs like beta blockers are referred to as "performance enhancing". We equate steroids with providing gains that would otherwise not be achievable naturally. Beta blockers don't do that. They don't help you play higher, faster or louder. They do help you to play to the best of your natural ability in a high stress situation.
Fair enough. But go back to my reply. I didn't talk about using any of these substances. I talked about misusing them. There's a difference. I also noted that "not all of the substances would necessarily be illicit".
Peace.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
Roids would tremendously strengthen your physical self, assuming you are taking a serious stack of choice prohormones, but without the ear and an understanding of proper technique, I believe the extra strength can cause even more damage or bad habits to your chops.
Alison Balsom I am sure could dominate most men in a trumpet competition of range and endurance, many of those men being substantially physically stronger than she is.
Practice, technique and proper guidance > a meatstick addicted and endocrinologically dependent on steroids:)
Roids would tremendously strengthen your physical self, assuming you are taking a serious stack of choice prohormones, but without the ear and an understanding of proper technique, I believe the extra strength can cause even more damage or bad habits to your chops.
Alison Balsom I am sure could dominate most men in a trumpet competition of range and endurance, many of those men being substantially physically stronger than she is.
Practice, technique and proper guidance > a meatstick addicted and endocrinologically dependent on steroids:)
Excellent point. When all else fails, try practicing.
Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 1471 Location: Riverview, FL
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:44 am Post subject:
I don't believe that enhancing the strength/mass of muscles engaged in trumpet playing can help to develop better range or playing in general. I have always believed that getting all the muscles balanced, i.e., working as one, is the physical demand necessary for playing.
The only way I know how to accomplish this requires practicing hours and hours of repetition every day for years to finally get this result.
No shortcuts. Just uncountable hours and years of practice. And then more on top of that to get it to sound musical.
Huh... can't believe folks would risk their long term health for a few high notes... crazy...
People risk their health for all kinds of reasons that to me don't seem rational.
Bodybuilders and powerlifters do it for gains even though most of them never set a record. There's a huge army of smokers and other tobacco users committing suicide for superficial gratification. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:17 am Post subject:
Robert P wrote:
Oldpipesandchops wrote:
Huh... can't believe folks would risk their long term health for a few high notes... crazy...
People risk their health for all kinds of reasons that to me don't seem rational.
Bodybuilders and powerlifters do it for gains even though most of them never set a record. There's a huge army of smokers and other tobacco users committing suicide for superficial gratification.
There's a major difference between doing the kinds of stacking with the amounts of steroids body builders use, and taking anabolic steroids correctly for a therapeutic reason. Done correctly, you aren't going to hurt yourself doing one or two cycles of a single type of anabolic steroid in a reasonable dosage. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
Last edited by trickg on Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total
Huh... can't believe folks would risk their long term health for a few high notes... crazy...
People risk their health for all kinds of reasons that to me don't seem rational.
Bodybuilders and powerlifters do it for gains even though most of them never set a record. There's a huge army of smokers and other tobacco users committing suicide for superficial gratification.
There's a major difference between doing the kinds of stacking with the amounts of steroids body builders use, and taking anabolic steroids correctly for a therapeutic reason.
Someone who's taking drugs illegally for performance enhancement by definition isn't doing it for a therapeutic reason and they're clearly not making their own long-term health a priority - they're gripped by a mania to get a result - Piana was a classic example. From what I understand he'd been warned about what he was likely doing to himself, which he dismissed with various rationalization. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Again
Jabroni wrote:
Again this has zero to do with trumpet. Robert where do you come up with these ridiculous ideas for threads? Im sure you can do better then this.
The initial concept of the thread was in fact related to trumpet.
But I'll be sure to run any ideas I have past you first. Really.
Hey what do you think about a thread about trumpet-playing kangaroos? _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
To directly address the original question, high range is primarily a function of technique. Although strength is involved, too, most experienced players have sufficient strength to produce the extreme high range. The primary thing they lack is the technique (which can also be related to physiology, that is, the physiological ability to employ the necessary technique). So, on this basis, I don't think taking steroids gets a player any real advantage in terms of producing high notes the player can't already produce.
It would be just as effective to carry a photo of Maynard in your gig bag or, better yet, get a portrait of Maynard tattooed somewhere on your body. Positive thinking has a limit. _________________ HERMOKIWI
To directly address the original question, high range is primarily a function of technique. Although strength is involved, too, most experienced players have sufficient strength to produce the extreme high range. The primary thing they lack is the technique (which can also be related to physiology, that is, the physiological ability to employ the necessary technique). So, on this basis, I don't think taking steroids gets a player any real advantage in terms of producing high notes the player can't already produce.
It would be just as effective to carry a photo of Maynard in your gig bag or, better yet, get a portrait of Maynard tattooed somewhere on your body. Positive thinking has a limit.
I don't disagree with you and wasn't saying I thought it would be effective, just curious if anyone ever heard of someone attempting it - i.e. taking PEDs with the idea in their head that it would help. What mostly inspired the question is that it was mentioned in another thread that someone felt their students with a more powerful build had quicker success with high notes. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel
Last edited by Robert P on Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:53 am Post subject:
Robert P wrote:
trickg wrote:
Robert P wrote:
People risk their health for all kinds of reasons that to me don't seem rational.
Bodybuilders and powerlifters do it for gains even though most of them never set a record. There's a huge army of smokers and other tobacco users committing suicide for superficial gratification.
There's a major difference between doing the kinds of stacking with the amounts of steroids body builders use, and taking anabolic steroids correctly for a therapeutic reason.
Someone who's taking drugs illegally for performance enhancement by definition isn't doing it for a therapeutic reason and they're clearly not making their own long-term health a priority - they're gripped by a mania to get a result - Piana was a classic example. From what I understand he'd been warned about what he was likely doing to himself, which he dismissed with various rationalization.
No doubt PEDs get abused. A friend of mine used to be heavily into lifting weights and body building, and openly talks about some of the stuff he used - both pill and injections. He was always pretty careful about what he was doing though and made sure to cycle off rather than to use continuously. He'd also be very careful about the quality of the PEDs he took, and he'd be careful about how and what he stacked. His lifting buddy? Not so much. His friend ended up losing both kidneys and has had two kidney transplants. The first one failed after a year or so, and he was danged lucky to get the second one.
So far my friend seems to be none the worse for wear though. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
Joined: 08 Dec 2017 Posts: 28 Location: Glasgow UK
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:46 am Post subject:
This thread is hilarious lol.
I'll be honest im more hoping that the test, npp and oxys im about to start are going to have me bigger and moving some serious weights in the gym but if i get a double c in the process i wont complaib
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Again
Robert P wrote:
Jabroni wrote:
Again this has zero to do with trumpet. Robert where do you come up with these ridiculous ideas for threads? Im sure you can do better then this.
The initial concept of the thread was in fact related to trumpet.
But I'll be sure to run any ideas I have past you first. Really.
Hey what do you think about a thread about trumpet-playing kangaroos?
Agreed.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Here's a post-shark-jump poll question: If there was a drug that would give you Maynard/Doc/Chase range, but would kill you in ten years, would you take it?
Depending on the population being asked, I'd guess the Yes votes would approach 50%.
If I were 90, then yes.
A similar question has been put to athletes: "Would you take a drug that would result in a world record, but would kill you in x years?" Psychologists have dismissed the % of yes's given since it is an unrealistic situation.
I'm not quite sure how taking steroids increases your range? Maybe by allowing you to practice longer up in the high register?
Generally athletes take steroids to gain mass quickly or allow their bodies to recover (rebuild) more quickly.
Which is why Tour de France cyclists take them. It isn't to bulk up, but to allow their muscles to regenerate/recover quicker from the demands of racing so much over such a short period of time.
There is a phenomena called 'Steroid Rage' in which your adrenaline levels go off the charts and you become extremely aggressive.
In the Second World War, the Germans fed their soldiers steroids to increase aggression and fearlessness. This also allowed them to go long periods without sleep (which is helpful in battle when you're attacking).
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