Tapered leadpipe for Flugelhorn

GEORGE LYMAN · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:12 am Post subject: Tapered leadpipe for Flugelhorn

Any experience with tapered leadpipes for Flugelhorns ? Particularly , in regard to intonation .

shofarguy

TKSop

shofarguy

Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187

Flugelnut · Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:32 am Post subject:

The next week or so I'm planning to make a cylindrical mouthpipe for my 1978 vintage B&H Sovereign flugel.
The original mouthpipe is tapered: the mouthpiece receiving end (starting ID of 10.3 mm) has a small Morse taper for about 45.0 mm, at which point the internal ID is approx. 8.0 mm, the pipe then widens with a straight taper to its ending ID of 10.6 mm. The OD is 11.0 mm, total length is 125.0 mm.
I will use a 11.0/10.0 mm straight brass pipe, reinforced and reamed at one end to take the mouthpiece (DW4F, small Morse taper), so that it inserts exactly as far as in the original pipe.
Hopefully the pipe material is not too much of a factor: the original is nickel silver.
Can hardly wait to hear how it works out, I'll definitely report back.

Tony Scodwell · Heavyweight Member Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1961

I witnessed Byron's experiments with his tapered leadpipe for the flugelhorn and played more than a few notes on one...it didn't work. It sounded like a good idea, short leadpipe and all, but other than changing the sound quality the intonation was unaffected. I believe the earlier French makers had this figured out long ago and perhaps this is why you didn't see a tapered pipe on any of the legendary horns from France. I don't know this as fact but I would hazard a guess that Couesnon and others may have tried this long ago.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com

Flugelnut · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:15 am Post subject:

Does anyone on this forum know what the inside of the GR/Melk replacement leadpipe for Couesnon and Olds flugels looks like: straight or tapered?

lipshurt · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:06 am Post subject:

The Yamaha shew pipe fits into the cousnon flugel, and it plays better. Or at least it did on mine, so I bought one and switched it. I had to sand it down very slightly so it would not be too tight.

It still was not as good as my friends stock cousnon though, which is amazing in sound, response, and intonation.

As I recall, (sold it) the Yamaha shew pipe was tapered not straight.

I also have a Yamaha 631 pipe here which is tapered. Totally different pipe though not interchangeable
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ChopsGone · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1793

The GR/Melk leadpipe is tapered, at least the part we think of as the receiver. It accepts Morse taper mouthpieces, and can digest either small ("Bach" for some reason) or large ("Yamaha" for even less obvious reason), although with extremely deep mouthpieces such as the Flip Oakes extreme series, it has to be the large taper variety as the small taper ones will bottom out. If the question referred to the portion of the leadpipe past the part where the mouthpiece is inserted, I haven't tried to determine whether that's tapered or not. It works fine, so it doesn't matter to me.
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shofarguy · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:37 am Post subject:

On the question of replacement pipes and how it is one plays better than another, I have experienced where a brass pipe for a Kanstul Besson played better than a brass pipe made for a Kanstul 925. Both were French taper, both the same length, both yellow brass. The little ring around the end of each pipe was a bit different, but not enough to make me think they had an effect. The Besson produced a smoother, more predictable response.

Why? Both were drawn on the same straight mandrel by the same people from the same stock. Are the tubes directional because they are drawn? Do different lengths cut from the same stock end up different?
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Flugelnut · Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:19 am Post subject:

I've mailed GR asking what the inside of their Couesnon, etc. leadpipe looks like. Curious.......

Flugelnut · Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:33 am Post subject:

GR's turnaround is exemplary, but they won't give specifics.
Can someone on this forum who has a GR pipe have a look down its back end and tell us if it's tapered or straight?
That's all I'd like to know.

USNABtpt · Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:44 am Post subject:

#4
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Flugelnut · Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:57 am Post subject:

I apologize for not earlier sharing my experience with the homemade cylindrical leadpipe for my B&H Sovereign flugel, of which the standard pipe is tapered.
Well: it is rather a fiasco. Intonation is like the standard pipe but response and in particular the sound are far worse.
The flugel with standard pipe has a rather small, but pleasant and centered sound: vintage Besson-ish if you want.
With the cylindrical pipe the sound lacks core and is rather rough around the edges.
I assume this (very small bore) horn was designed around this tapered pipe, just like most other flugels are designed with a straight pipe in mind.
Intersting experiment, though.