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Dr. Manhattan
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 Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:14 pm Post subject: Colors |
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Very interesting!
I thought the more narrow svelte appearance was just due to smaller bell and lead pipe to valve braces along with the "S" braces. It seems the valve port layout is the driving factor.
Thank you for the information.
I enjoyed reading your posts on the Kanstul Committee and the Burbank.
Very informative and fun reading!
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Dr. Manhattan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:55 pm Post subject: Colors |
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Brian,
Does your statement, "... It's something I've wanted to discuss with Kanstul and here on TH, but never found the right place to introduce conversation." mean that it is now time to discuss this topic? And you will be kicking that conversation off? 
I think it would be real interesting to hear peoples differing views as well as Kanstul's views. I was under the impression Kanstul did not change their port configuration because it would cost too much money to make that change just for a small production of 1603s.
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Colors |
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| Dr. Manhattan wrote: | Brian,
Does your statement, "... It's something I've wanted to discuss with Kanstul and here on TH, but never found the right place to introduce conversation." mean that it is now time to discuss this topic? And you will be kicking that conversation off?
I think it would be real interesting to hear peoples differing views as well as Kanstul's views. I was under the impression Kanstul did not change their port configuration because it would cost too much money to make that change just for a small production of 1603s. |
They actually have made the change to include the vertical stacked ports on the first valve for both the 1603 and the 1603+. I'm finishing my article on the Wallace Roney model, as I write this. I should be ready to publish this next week.
But the shift in the port layout we're talking about precipitates a whole host of other changes. That would be a larger commitment for any manufacturer to make.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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iiipopes
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Oh, if only the guitar solo in the Jefferson Airplane song "White Rabbit" had been played on this flugel....
I mean that as the highest compliment. That looks so cool. I just can't bring myself to do that to my Couesnon silver plated flugal, even though I have done it to guitars in days gone by.
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Colors |
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| Robert Rowe wrote: | | Dr. Manhattan wrote: | ......
I was going to say nickle slides but Kanstul is doing that.
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That is not a good thing.
I've had scores of Committees ... (no -- really ... I have). I much prefer the "plain Jane" models (all brass, no nickel) for tone and nimble legato runs (my style of playing). To my ear, nickel tends to produce a slightly brighter tone.
I believe (?) this element (all brass vs. nickel slides and inner slide tubes) has been discussed here on TH, relevant to other brands of horns, as well.
~ r2 ~
deplorable horn player, pick'r
There's a crack in everything ... that's how the light gets in. -- Leonard Cohen, "Anthem" |
The best thing is that Kanstul will build your 1603/1603+ just the way you want it. Each horn is fabricated to order from scratch with very few, if any, bin parts.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| iiipopes wrote: | Oh, if only the guitar solo in the Jefferson Airplane song "White Rabbit" had been played on this flugel....
I mean that as the highest compliment. That looks so cool. I just can't bring myself to do that to my Couesnon silver plated flugal, even though I have done it to guitars in days gone by. |
Thank you! Your comment hit my funny bone, because I was thinking just yesterday to take an old Bach 6C mouthpiece that I never use and try the patina on it. If I like the result, I'll stick a photo here in the thread.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Dr. Manhattan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:21 am Post subject: Colors |
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I'm looking forward to you article on the Wallace Roney Model!!!
Have you thought of doing a comparison between the Wallace Roney model and the Mic Gillette committee (470 bore) model???
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trumpet.trader
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Colors |
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| Dr. Manhattan wrote: | I'm looking forward to you article on the Wallace Roney Model!!!
Have you thought of doing a comparison between the Wallace Roney model and the Mic Gillette committee (470 bore) model??? |
I think I’ve seen that trumpet. Is it the one with the 6 inch bell? If so I’ve seen it and played it. I think it’s now with Eric Myrashiro’s collection.
If it’s the same horn my friend showed it to me in 2001 maybe? Not sure where he got it. As I recall is was an old Martin with a newer Leblanc/Martin bell? Maybe? I don’t remember for sure. But it WAS a six inch bell. Total monstrosity of a horn. Just an abomination.  |
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Colors |
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The OP said,
| shofarguy wrote: | | This photo is of my raw copper/brass Wild Thing flugelhorn. I've been letting the copper turn colors, at will, as I use it. |
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Dr. Manhattan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: Colors |
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I believe Mic and Dick Akright did a run of 3 or 4 dozen of these horns. 6 of the horns were 484 bore and the rest were 470 bore. Bill Ortiz played both versions for a while. Yes, they have 6" bells.
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Dr. Manhattan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:51 am Post subject: Colors |
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Yes.....
My apologies for getting off topic from the OP's original post! 
The coloration on Brian's flugelhorn is really beautiful!!
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Robert Rowe
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Colors |
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| Dr. Manhattan wrote: | | I believe Mic and Dick Akright did a run of 3 or 4 dozen of these horns. 6 of the horns were 484 bore and the rest were 470 bore. Bill Ortiz played both versions for a while. Yes, they have 6" bells. |
I tried one. Various mouthpieces employed.
I was NOT pleased. Intonation was abominable, slotting was sloppy.
They played and sounded somewhat less than awful.
I believe the conceptualization of this instrument was akin to what many of us call a "Frankenhorn".
I was backstage with Gillette at a show on Long Island (NY). He had already abandoned that horn.
~ r2 ~
deplorable horn player
Last edited by Robert Rowe on Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Robert P
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Colors |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | I decided to try a chemical patina on that part. It's called Rainbow. One applies it to a hot metal surface and it turns the surface colors. |
Not at all familiar with this but is it known not to negatively affect the fundamental integrity of the metal?
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Colors |
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| Robert P wrote: | | shofarguy wrote: | | I decided to try a chemical patina on that part. It's called Rainbow. One applies it to a hot metal surface and it turns the surface colors. |
Not at all familiar with this but is it known not to negatively affect the fundamental integrity of the metal? |
Robert,
Before I tried it on my flugelhorn, I practiced on a sheet of copper about 6x8 inches. I prepped the surface with fine wet-or-dry to 2500 grit. I also tried the usual Brasso to remove the patina. Brasso has a chemical that does wonders for removing oxidation without even hard rubbing. It did remove the patina and there was minute to no surface deterioration.
So, I figured it would be okay for the horn. It is designed to go on various metals.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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vwag
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| That website Sculpt Neaveau has metal sealers, will you seal it when it ends up where you want? Cool idea. |
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| vwag wrote: | | That website Sculpt Neaveau has metal sealers, will you seal it when it ends up where you want? Cool idea. |
I think I'll try the metal wax. I've tried spraying stuff in Arizona and it's not so easy to get a good result. The horn doesn't have a mirror finish anywhere, so I think some buffing would have to be done for the brass to look right under clear lacquer. So, in my mind, wax is the best way to seal and protect it. It's a maintenance finish for sure, but I'm okay with that.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Since I referenced this article in a more recent thread by some other TH member, I decided to review what had been written here. My last comment above stated that I would try the metal wax that Sculpt Nouveaux sells. I did try it.
It was so thick and gummy that I could not get a satisfactory result. So, I think I tried it on a test piece of something metal and really disliked it. It was not possible for me to get it to work. I also tried Turtle wax, but it really didn't seem to do anything at all.
I still get the feeling there is leftover Hands OFF! nano coating on the surface, but I will never know.
Anyway, I polish the horn about once a year with 3M Tarnishield and that brightens up the brass nicely to a near-mirror shine, but leaves the colors on the copper, while removing any dull red/brown oxidation. The patina colors that were more magenta-blue have faded away to a more natural looking brownish red, but the blue-green colors that have been developing on the horn are finally beginning to cover the bell flare, inside and out. Under the lights in my house, which are warm LEDs, the colors are dull. Under indirect daylight, they are just stunning!
BTW, the early photos in this thread are enhanced a little. The real saturation levels are more subtle and often don't show well in an untouched photograph. These images below are pretty accurate and are not edited.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Grits Burgh
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Very lovely indeed.
Now you need to post your best smokey audio clip playing the horn - maybe, "I Remember Clifford."
Warm regards,
Grits
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