The Bobby Shew Marcinkiewicz Mouthpieces

gabriel127

A friend of mine once gave me a Marcinkiewicz Bobby Shew 1 mouthpiece. It is by far the zippiest, liveliest high note mouthpiece that I've ever attempted to play, bar none and I've tried them all. It's simply easier to play high notes on that thing.

The problem is that I have always played a mouthpiece that is deeper than that and I tend to bottom out on the Shew 1 after playing on it for 10 minutes or more.

I know that Marcinkiewicz makes other cup depths of the Shew, including the 1.25, the 1.5, 1.75, and a 2.

Before I embark on mail order trials on these, I'm wondering if there's anyone else out there who bottomed out on the 1 but was able to play the 1.25 without bottoming out? Or do guys typically have to go a couple of steps deeper to the 1.75 or the 2?

I can play the Marcinkiewicz Allen Vizzutti model without a problem, but the rim inside diameter on that one is wider that what I like to play.

Thanks in advance.

JVL · Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:33 pm Post subject:

Hello
I think you will not bottom on the Shew 1.25 since you have not this problem with th Vizzutti that is shallower than the 1.25.

I m very familiar with the Marc. Shew serie, and play custom mpcs whose ID is based on Ingram's, but upsized a little bit. The cup depths go from Ingram, to Shew 1.25, 1.5, 2, and Bach C, A, and deeper, all with various throats and bb combinations, and are very useful in all the contexts i play in.

Have you tried the Yam Shew lead? It has a bright, being less aggressive sound, so a warmer sound than the Marc. one.
I do know the Marc. and Yam Shew have different backbores, so this sound difference may be dued to this or/and the Yam having a little more weight.

So, you should go for the 1.25

Best

gabriel127 · Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:47 am Post subject:

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, the Vizzutti is shallower than the 1.25, but it's got a wider inside diameter, which caused me to wonder if the wider diameter might factor into the not bottoming out thing. I don't know. But I'll give the 1.25 a try.

As far as the Yamaha mp, I haven't tried it. It sounds interesting; however, I have tried some of the other Yamaha mouthpieces such as the 14a4a and 13a4a, and I don't care for the rim contours. They feel too rounded off on the inside diameter for me. I like the Marcinkiewicz "medium-flat" rims because they have that little edge, that little "bite" to them that I like.

ljazztrm · Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:37 am Post subject:

The Vizzutti Marcink is slighty deeper than the Shew #1. Cats usually bottom out on shallower pieces because the diameter is too big for them. You may want to contact nyctrumpeter. He plays an Ingram rim, which is a smaller diameter than the Shew 1 and the cup is a little shallower than the Shew 1..but it has a 28 throat. I believe it’s Dave Trigg’s cup. Bob McCoy once told me that, if you have a tighter throat, you won’t be as likely to bottom out on a shallow cup because your lips won’t collapse into the cup as much. To me, the diameter of the mouthpiece is the most important, but I think a slightly tighter throat will help too. My screaming lead piece that I use without a mic is Jim New’s new Jim Manley Lead3 model. It is a very shallow V cup (you can see a scan here: http://james-r-new.com/mouthpieces/lead-line-trumpet-mouthpiec.html ) and it has a 30 throat. The feel is between a .620 and .630 I would say. It’s a bigger diameter than my old main lead piece, which is a shallower version of the Marcinkiewicz E16 Candoli model. But it’s eminently very comfortable for a lot of cats to get used to unless they like really big, or super small diameters. I believe Wayne Bergeron used to play a Shew 1.5 for awhile. It’s still quite shallow and definitely a lead piece. The Shew 2 is more of a deeper V cup and, while you could play lead on it if you want to work hard, it’s a great small group jazz piece. Hope this helps! All the best, Lex
_________________
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JVL · Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:59 am Post subject:

hello Lex,
sorry to say, or maybe it's a mistake of your writing, but Ingram's is a little deeper than Shew 1
Best

ljazztrm · Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:33 am Post subject:

Oh sorry JVL, yes my writing was unclear. Nyctrumpeter had Dave Trigg's cup put on an Ingram rim which is shallower than the Shew 1.. Oh, here we go! Nyctrumpeter:

gabriel127 · Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:59 am Post subject:

Thanks Lex.

Any time I get smaller in diameter than the Shew, which is .662, I start having problems. Plus the other mouthpiece that I use for non-lead stuff is really close in diameter to that.

I thought that the throat on the Bobby Shew 1 is a .28 already. And I'd prefer not to get into customization and attempt to get a .29 throat. What about backbores, don't those influence chop penetration too?

IDK, I may just try the 1.25 and see how that goes. I'm not a gearhead (as you can tell) and I'm trying to keep it as simple and inexpensive as possible.

ljazztrm · Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:08 am Post subject:

If I tighter throat helps with not bottoming out, I wonder if a tighter backbore would as well..maybe so. Yeah, I understand..makes sense..probably next best logical step is to go to the 1.25. All the very best, Lex
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com

JVL · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:06 am Post subject:

hello Lex, no prob, and Best wishes to you and all yours, hope you had a great time !

In my case, i bottom with a shallow mpcs if the ID is too small, not too large...
And about the tighter throat, i don't know if it helps not to bottom, but in such case, maybe practicing the aperture control and whisper tones could help...what do you think?

Best

ljazztrm · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:58 am Post subject:

Hmmm..that's odd JVL, maybe Pops will chime in with some knowledge. As far as developing control and efficiency, there is an outstanding Schlossberg routine by longtime pro trumpet player Dave Belknap that was used by many West Coast cats in the mid-to-late 20th century like Gozzo and Uan Rasey: https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=145903
Once you've practiced that one on a daily basis for several months, you may want to check out Larry Meregliano's clip on that pasted link above and start practicing the 20 min Cat Anderson whisper 'G' with the teeth closed. Even after your chops are balanced from the Schlossberg, it might take a few weeks to get that G down to a real whisper around the closed teeth. Hope this helps! All the very best, Lex
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com

JVL · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:22 am Post subject:

thanks Lex !
But i was talking in general, i've no bottoming problem, i just said that i bottom if i use a mpcs with an ID too small and too shallow.
The mpcs i play (and my embouchure) don't create this problem to me.

My question was about an alternative to tight throat not to bottom, if the answer was more to search in practicing the control of the aperture, unfurling the lips, practicing for instance whisper tones (for part or whole sessions).

Best

ljazztrm · Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:52 am Post subject:

Whisper tones work for some players and not others. I think of a player like Bob Odneal who achieved great results with whisper tones. There are other players who have very good success with very soft practice. For me, I had the best results with the Cat Anderson 20 min whisper 'G' with the teeth closed.

As far as bottoming out on a rim ID that's too small, instead of too big, I hadn't heard of that before. Maybe Pops will chime in with his ideas.

HEEEEEEY POPS!!!! POPS!!! CAN YOU HEAR ME?? WE NEED SOME HELP HERE!! HEY! I'm talking to YOU!! I don't see anyone else around here..I'm talkin' to YOU!!

Ok JVL, that should do it.. I think he heard that and will chime in

_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com

trumpet.trader · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Jul 2017 Posts: 200

I’ve had experience bottoming out on cups that are too shallow but never from too small of an inside I.D.

Without making the cup “deeper” I’ve had success fixing the issue with either adding a little more underbite for chop room, or the entrance to the throat

That way the cup is mostly unaltered and the sound I liked in the first place is still there.

But sometimes it just doesn’t work and I’d need a slight modification to make the cup deeper.

A way to find out where your chops make contact with the cup and the vibrations stop is to put on some lipstick! Put it on, play the piece and the lipstick leaves a fingerprint showing exactly where the chop to cup engagement happens and your mouthpiece guy can make the minute adjustments and see where the issue is.

Pops · Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:15 pm Post subject:

WE say we bottom out when the inside of the cup touches part of the vibration and that of course disrupts the sound.

It can be too shallow, too small a diameter or too big a diameter and in each case we bottom out or touch the inside of the cup slightly differently.

You can learn to play smaller and shallower pieces but most people can't or don't want to devote the time to get used to it. While getting used to it you sound bad, play bad, miss notes and have a horrible experience for weeks.

IT usually isn't worth the effort and time involvement.
_________________
Clint 'Pops' McLaughlin
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50 years Teaching. Teaching and writing trumpet books is ALL I do.
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ljazztrm · Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:14 pm Post subject:

Sorry to shout Pops, I knew we could count on you

_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com