Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 390 Location: Eureka, CA
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:33 am Post subject:
A great horn player I went to school with in Chicago was pretty well convinced it was written for horn (at least the wee horn) and worked it up for a recital. I have to say, it sound like a good piece for horn. _________________ WAK
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Saul Caston recorded BB 2 as early as in 1928 (Philadelphia Orchestra, Leopold Stokowski).
Georges Mager (1885 - 1950), was first trumpet with Boston Symphony Orchestra (principal from 1919 - 1950). Mager was a student of Merri Franquin at the Paris Conservatory - he may have heard about BB 2 at that time in France? (...this last thing is just my speculation....)
Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 128 Location: Austin, TX
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:48 am Post subject:
Ole, it wouldn't be too hard to find out. Such a concert would likely have been reviewed in the Boston newspapers, and those are probably digitized and accessible somehow. It would equally be possible to look in the BSO archives in Boston. If anyone is going there again, I still can't figure out who the 3rd trumpeter was at Tanglewood 1940 (Harry Herforth, Bob Weatherly and ?). I have a full list of the students, but can't seem to figure it out yet. Also, I've always been curious if Roger Voisin was a teacher at Tanglewood in 1940. I know he was in 1941, but I'm not so sure about the inaugural 1940 year. A little off-topic, but had to mention in case anyone does decide to go to the BSO archives..
The cornet soloists could have certainly had the chops to play it! Mager got to BSO in 1919 as a violist, and took over the principal trumpet chair in 1920. I also remember hearing about a very early NYC performance of Brandenburg. I'm a bit hazy on my bburg history these days!
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:43 pm Post subject:
jadickson wrote:
So why did Bach write a concerto that nobody (at the time) could play? It doesn't make sense.
There's significant reason to believe that at the time it was written (early 1700's, Baroque period) there were players who could play that register. The OP is asking whether or not players later in history (late 1800's, Romantic period) could have played it.
From Wikipedia:
Clarin or clarino also came to refer to melodic playing in the upper register of the trumpet "with a soft and melodious, singing tone, as distinct from 'principale playing' (Principalblasen), which meant to play with a powerful, blasting tone [in the lower register]."[1] Before valves were added to the trumpet, a full diatonic scale was only possible in its upper register, where the harmonics are close together. Clarino playing was cultivated by specialists, but the skill died out in the middle of the eighteenth century and was not revived until the historically informed performance movement of the twentieth century. The best-known clarino part in the repertoire is in Brandenburg Concerto No. 2 by J. S. Bach. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
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As regards to the recording with Saul Caston, he plays in down the octave.
Have you head the recording?
I've heard it many times, very well played as you might imagine. I think the first recordings played in the upper octave were with Sporri and Vignal and Eksdale, all made within a few years of each other, some 5 or 6 years after the Stokowski recording.
largo,
Yes, the first recording with the trumpet consistently in the high octave was done in 1932.
Swiss born Paul Spörri (1909-1982) played the trumpet part. He used a trumpet in F made by Joseph Monke.
A great horn player I went to school with in Chicago was pretty well convinced it was written for horn (at least the wee horn) and worked it up for a recital. I have to say, it sound like a good piece for horn.
Prof. Hickman addresses the "Thurston Dart" assertion in his Summit Masterclass series on "Baroque trumpet". He pretty thoroughly debunks Darts asssertions due to a variety of reasons, which I will let him elaborate on. (Or I'll note them down when i get to school and can listen).
Joined: 07 Feb 2002 Posts: 2284 Location: Toluca, Mexico
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject:
Ole, you are the Brandenburg man! Amazing info here and on your website.
Listening to the historical (as in early era) recordings is very enlightening. I have the Baker and Vacchiano recordings - not to be missed.
I have the Tom Stevens recording, and at least one other Maurice Andre recording not on the list, and also a different Guy Touvron recording. I'll send you more info when I get home this weekend.
I have the Tom Stevens recording, and at least one other Maurice Andre recording not on the list, and also a different Guy Touvron recording. I'll send you more info when I get home this weekend.
JU
Thanks, JU!
I'm looking forward to more info.
Btw, when Mark Bennett found the list, he contacted me and gave me info about all his recordings.
As you can see at the end of the list, Wilmer Wise and Ed. Tarr also have been helping. Walter Roth in Germany is helping alll the time.
These involvements is what is making it a fun project. So welcome in "the club", JU!
largo,
Yes, the first recording with the trumpet consistently in the high octave was done in 1932.
Swiss born Paul Spörri (1909-1982) played the trumpet part. He used a trumpet in F made by Joseph Monke.
Reviving an old thread because a search on a different topic led me here and it was an interesting read.
I found this recording on youtube of the aforementioned 1932 recording of Paul Spörri performing the last movement. It was interesting to listen to and perhaps some others of you would be interested in it, too. I haven't noticed it posted before.
The trick to playing the Brandenburg especially on Piccolo Trumpet is not to over power the other soloists namely the recorder. I have performed the BBC several times on Piccolo and am planning to perform it next time, an octave lower on the Corno da Caccia. Looking forward to the comparison.
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:37 am Post subject: Brandenburg 2
Actually the first recording of the 2nd Brandenburg was made in 1928 with Stokowski leading the Philadelphia Orchestra for Victor,Saul Caston playing the Trumpet part,although in many passages transposed down.
Yes, that's why oj, who I quoted, stated "...the first recording with the trumpet consistently in the high octave."
I just find it fascinating that with a 300 year old piece of music, the closest we can get to that time is a not quite 100 year old recording.
Skilled visual artists from the time accurately show people and scenes from those days. If only we could somehow recover the sounds of Bach playing Bach, of Gabrieli ringing from the rafters ... All we have are written word descriptions, far short of actually hearing it.
Theo Charlier was the first person in modern times to perform the Brandenburg in the correct octave. He did this by working with Victor Mahillion in Brussels to build the first B-flat piccolo trumpet.
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