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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:59 pm Post subject: Benge Leadpipes - Allied version. Thoughts? |
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So, I cleaned my LA Benge 3X in the acid bath and ultrasonic tank. It's nice and clean. Sadly, my leadpipe is not in great shape. Cosmetically, it's not a disaster, but it does have a few small pinhole leaks that came up when I gave it a pressure test. I was poking through the Allied catalog looking for parts for the missing stop-rod assembly on the third slide when I noticed that there were replacement Benge pipes in there for my 3X.
Anyone have experience with these? _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Kanstul is your best bet. The Burbank line is made on original Benge mandrels. |
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gord-o Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Posts: 280 Location: Sioux Falls, SD
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:25 am Post subject: |
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I don't have experience with Allied's Benge pipes, but I would bet that what they have are UMI/Conn-Selmer era pipes, not old stock Benge lead pipes. It's normal when dealing with Allied that they send me a part that is the newest version of the part for that horn, but it isn't exactly the same as the old part. As Allied has told me in the past, "We have what we have". Another option is M/K drawing and bending. _________________ Richard Hastings
Brass and Stringed Instrument Repair,
Popplers Music |
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Yamahaguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:34 am Post subject: |
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+1 as to what Richard said above...that's my experience also. I've also heard
Kanstul is not taking repairs, selling parts however? Dunno...you can inquire.
Another option is Steve Winans, Dr. Valve. He made me a pipe for one of my
Benges that is an exact copy of an original LA. |
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derekthor Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2012 Posts: 480 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:38 am Post subject: |
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John Huth, one of the instructors at the instrument repair program in Red Wing, has a 3X that plays like a dream. It's a really simple process to take measurements from an existing pipe and manufacture a replacement, and I'm sure either he or a student down there could do it easily for you. |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3636 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Benge Leadpipes - Allied version. Thoughts? |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | So, I cleaned my LA Benge 3X in the acid bath and ultrasonic tank. It's nice and clean. Sadly, my leadpipe is not in great shape. Cosmetically, it's not a disaster, but it does have a few small pinhole leaks that came up when I gave it a pressure test. I was poking through the Allied catalog looking for parts for the missing stop-rod assembly on the third slide when I noticed that there were replacement Benge pipes in there for my 3X.
Anyone have experience with these? |
Yes, Allied has what's left of the Conn-Selmer Benge production. They work fine, I've replaced pipes on various horns and have had no problem. Kanstul pipes are also excellent. If it's possible, it's always good to try several - they can play differently in some ways.
-Lionel _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9027 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn, (love the pseudonym, BTW), I don't know if he would release the information (for legal or professional reasons), but Jim Becker of Osmun music replaced the lead pipe on my Benge and it works well. You might ask him where he got the replacement. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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James Becker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2827 Location: Littleton, MA
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Regarding Alllied Supply for Benge leadpipes, there are three pipes listed, but only one model remains. I don't have the catalog in front of me so I can't provide part numbers, but the two depleted pipes are for the 3X (same for 3XP and 5X) and 6X aka Claude Gordon (same for 7X), leaving only the 4X pipe. Though the venuri of the 4X pipe measures smaller than the 3X, it's relatively easy to enlarge it to match the 3X opening.
We recently built up a complete assembly with a modified 4X tube and had it silver plated it in anticipation of needing one. Sure enough the very next week someone came in with a Benge 5X in need of a replacement pipe. We informed our customer it was a Benge pipe, but not the same as his 5X pipe. After spending time running it though it's paces he was satisfied with how it sounded and played so he and had us install it and left happy with the change.
Kanstul makes some terrific replica pipes which we've sourced from them should you want to go that route.
I hope this is helpful _________________ James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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tptguy Jerome Callet Forum Moderator
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 3380 Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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For LA Benge definitely go to Kanstul. And get 3X pipe only. Other options may be "ok", but LA Benge deserves better. |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3636 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:20 am Post subject: |
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Sorry to hear that Allied has run out of the ML pipe but I'm not surprised. Benge is going the way of all discontinued brands. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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James Becker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2827 Location: Littleton, MA
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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:51 am Post subject: |
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FWIW Allied sold genuine Benge NOS (new old stock) 3X and 6X leadpipe tubes, not aftermarket pipes as they will often do when a part becomes obsolete. The good news as it turns out is the 4X pipe substitution is one workable solution. As we often suggest to our customers, play test the prospective leadpipes before committing to a replacement so you know ahead of time what you're getting. Our practice going forward will include the choice of a genuine NOS Benge 4X pipe and the Kanstul 3X pipe leaving the decision up to the player to decide.
I hope this is helpful. _________________ James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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James Becker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2827 Location: Littleton, MA
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Another avenue for those with excessively corrosive chemistry is the gold brass King mouthpipe tube. It's taper is remarkably similar to the Benge 3X pipe. We had a gentleman who wanted a long-term solution to his red rotted mouthpipe and didn't mind taking a little edge out of his sound since he played 4th book/solo chair in a big band.
I hope this is helpful. _________________ James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:10 am Post subject: |
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James Becker wrote: | ...and 6X aka Claude Gordon (same for 7X)... |
Unless the Venturi is enlarged a 6X pipe is not an exact replacement for the CG leadpipe. The CG Leadpipe is supposed to have a .358" Venturi section where as the stock Benge 6X pipes have venturies in the .345" range. |
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James Becker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2827 Location: Littleton, MA
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, I'm in the habit of matching a new pipe's venturi to the one being replaced, but not always the gap as that likely has worn down a bit. Restoration of gap can do wonders for slotting. _________________ James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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