New King Silver Flair vs Older King Silver Flair

[Spartan040]

I was thinking about getting a King Silver Flair trumpet, and I heard that the new ones weren't as good as the old ones, and were kind of bad. I don't want to pay the money it would take to buy a Bach Strad or Yamaha Xeno, and I want a trumpet I can use for marching, symphonic, and jazz. I currently have a Yamaha YTR-2335 and I'm going to be a sophomore next year. So can I use the silver flair for all three of those types of music, is it better than my current trumpet, and is an older one better than a new one? If they older ones are noticeably better, and if I were to get an older one, what's the last year that they were good?

[kanemania]

There are some differences of opinion regarding newer UMI Silver Flairs.

I have one circa 1990. It's not terrible, but it's basically an intermediate horn. Before the UMI takeover, Silver Flairs were apparently quite nice, professional-quality instruments. But not so much any more.

Whatever you do, don't buy one new. They don't maintain their resale value. By all means, try one -- if you like it, you can usually get a used one in good shape for less than $500.

[kanemania]

One more thing: The Silver Flair is not such a specialized horn that you couldn't use it for marching, symphonic, jazz or anything else.

[robertgrier]

The original flairs starting in the early 60s were pro line horns. A large bore.462 bore. I use to own one. super nice horn. The current Flair is an intermediate horn with a ML .460 bore. I used to work for King dealer and never liked them.
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Bob Grier
An Old Pro
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[david mickley]

the pre-UMI Silver Flairs were great players and there were many pros that used them. the few UMI flairs that I have tried didn't have any "core" to their sound [would make a good marching or pep band horn]. If you go the UMI route I would recommend the Benge 90B which I heard was the same horn as the Silver Flair but with a different bell. I used to own an early 90B and that horn played and sounded better than any of the Strads that I had owned.
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[DaveH]

The "older", so to speak, Silver Flair was a horn that was built to different specifications and design than the contemporary model.

I think the comparison is spurious...they are two different horns. Unfortunately, they bear the same name, which may very well be misleading for many people.

I am sure there is nothing wrong with the current model; it just isn't the same horn as the original.

Also, if you would adjust for inflation and compare prices using constant dollars, the original model at a 1965 retail price of $425 would cost quite a bit more money to buy new, if it were still in production., than the present retail of the current model.

All in all, two different horns. I don't think there is anything wrong with either of them, but they remain two different horns.

[Spartan040]

Could I use an older King Silver Flair for marching? Or were they mainly meant for symphonic and jazz?

[veery715]

[DaveH]

Yes, it would fine for marching, but I would never, and did never, use mine for that purpose. It is a light weight horn, and I think it could be easily damaged in that context. It was the top professional model of the King trumpet line back in the 1960s.

The first one I owned was purchased in 1965. I used it occasionally in the marching band back then when I was in high school, but had an old cornet that I used most of the time in order to protect the Silver Flair.

Although the Silver Flair is a versatile horn, I think it is best used in a jazz, combo, solo, or big band context. It can produce a bright and room filling sound of considerable power, and may not blend as well in the symphonic context as, for example, a Bach Strad 180-37.

I have an original Silver Flair today that dates back to late 1969/early 1970. It is the exact design and construction of the original instrument as initially produced by the H.N. White Company in 1964. It is in what I would call nearly mint condition. All it needs right now is new spit valve corks.

Even the case is the original style and construction.

[plankowner110]

Spartan040,

I am quite familiar with the H.N. White Co. (later King Musical Instruments Co.) 1055T Silver flair and the UMI/Conn-Selmer era 2055T Silver Flair. They are two totally different trumpets. The 1055T was the top-of-the-line King pro trumpet when introduced in 1964. Production ran until 1979. It is a lightweight trumpet with .462" bore that is very free-blowing and rather bright sounding. It absolutely sizzles in the high range.

In the fall of 1980, King Musical Instruments Co. discontinued all their pro models (Silver Flair, Symphony Super-20, etc.) and introduced the 2000 Series professional trumpets. These were fine horns as well with one-piece bells and various bore sizes, bell tapers, etc. This was during the era when Dan Henkin owned King, Conn, Emerson, and other instrument companies.

Around 1985 this conglomerate became United Musical Instruments. The 2000 Series pro trumpets were dropped and a look-alike but less professional model Flair (later re-named Silver Flair) was introduced. That was the beginning of the current 2055T Silver Flair.

The 2055T is a good all purpose horn for a student who does not want to spend big bucks on a Bach Strad, etc. The 2055T also has a .462" bore (not .460" as posted above) but is not as resonant and free-blowing as the original 1055T Silver Flair trumpets. If you found a nice King 1055T (1964-79) Silver Flair I would caution you against using it for marching band.

I am a retired band director and former King retailer (a long time ago.) I played a King 1055T Silver Flair professionally for many, many years. When I say it is free-blowing, I really mean free-blowing. It takes a lot of air, but what a sound!

Good luck to you.

[DaveH]

The closest thing I have played to an original 1960s King Silver Flair would be a Benge from the same era. Light weight, flexible, brighter tone, less blowing resistance than some other kinds of horns, etc.

[uglylips]

I own a near perfect 1972 Silver Flair. It is a very bright horn and I've used it in big band. It's a great horn. I would value it at no less than $1200 and would never sell it. I bought mine years ago for $600 and had it restored for an additional $400, which included a valve job, alignment, a few dents removed, chem clean and silver polish. The receiver is slightly worn and I use a mouthpiece with Reeves sleeves. I have never played another horn like it.

If you can find any of the early professional Silver Flairs in good shape, I think you will really like it. I agree with everyone else about not using it in marching band. Good luck.

[Crazy Finn]

[Cadenza]

The old Silver Flair is a great pro horn. Could definitely hold its own against any of other horns of the day. Which one of the different manufacturers' top horns you played simply depended on which one you happened to like the best.

I still have one of these good Flairs and it's a fine lead horn. Would be ok for any other application, too, just as long as you matched the mouthpiece to the situation. That said, in my experience this was usually used as a lead or jazz horn, though plenty of people used it for other things as well.

Haven't played the current version of the Silver Flair but, as many others have said, my understanding is that it's significantly inferior to the old Silver Flair.

For a marching horn, count 100% on it getting dinged, dented, or scratched. All it takes is one mishap and you'll be reminding yourself about this post and others like it in this thread. Unless you can pick horns off a tree, don't even consider using a good horn for marching. And if you can pick horns off a tree, please send me a cutting so I can start my own . . .

[blbaumgarn]

If you decide on a newer King it won't be the quality instrument that the vintage Kings are. EMI doesn't make those quality horns anymore. If they did, professional, and amateurs with a desire to play top line horns would be buying
them. My only experience goes back to h.s. and I got to try a few silver flairs at contest or select bands. Really fun to play, great sound. There are vintage Flairs in the marketplace here pretty often. If you decide on the older King horn keep an older knockaround to use for marching band. The types of accidents and collisions that happen aren't usually the player's fault! Have fun

[Robert P]

I wouldn't use a Silver Flair for marching, way too nice of a horn. There are a bunch of cheap Bessons on Ebay that would be better.

As far as for everything else - after playing an "old" SF for years I like my Getzen Eterna Severinsen better.
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King Silver Flair
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Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo

Chinese Flugel

[iiipopes]

You could not pay me to play a Silver Flair made after the Conn-Selmer cyborg took over. If I did not have my current pre-cyborg Super 20, a pre-cyborg Silver Flair would be next on my list.

For marching way back when I was in school in the late 70's, Mom understood the value of my Dad's Super 20 (which was later stolen), and purchased a used King Cleveland for me to march with in parade, when I wasn't playing a school souzy on the football field. The Cleveland was a surprisingly good horn. Many of my classmates played them in concert band. And it was cheap: $75 with case in 1978! When I graduated, of course I was able to sell it for what I paid for it. I only sold it because the undergrad I went to did not have a football team, and still does not, so no need for a "marching horn."
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[BGinNJ]

Well, you couldn't pay me to be in a marching band, but it seems obvious to me you wouldn't want to risk damaging a nice horn playing in that environment.

I started playing in a big band, and after an outdoor gig with a crowded bandstand on asphalt, I thought I better get a horn I wouldn't worry about too much. I found a '91 UMI silver Flair in great shape at a great price. It's a nice playing horn, not a dog by any means. I've played the older version, and I thought it was too bright (and I like light, bright horns).

[Crazy Finn]

Zombie thread!
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[chef8489]