Mt. Vernon 7C vs current 7C

[BobD]

To anyone that has played both, is there a big difference in cup diameter and depth between these two pieces?
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Adams/ACB collaborative
Yamaha Shew Jazz and Bach 7C

[VintageHorns]

I've played both. I've heard each Mt.Vernon 7C is handmade, but as to if this makes a difference I haven't had the pleasure of trying several Vernons. The one I have had less bite and felt a bit more comfortable, smoother. (could've been the silver) Personally I felt that it was quite unique in comparison, but not as much as a mouthpiece with a whole different rim or backbore.

[A.N.A.Mendez]

Way different. Was lucky to find a Bach NY 7C for cornet with "O" on stem, for the Olds cornet before serial number 184XXX, what a great piece. Nothing like the modern 7C.....
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"There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860

☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚

[gord-o]

The rim shape is the biggest difference between the old and new 7c. I have a Mt Vernon 7c trumpet and a New York 7c cornet piece. They both have much more comfortable rims than any recent Bach 7c. The cups are pretty standard C cups, rim diameter is similar to a modern 7c.
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Richard Hastings
Brass and Stringed Instrument Repair,
Popplers Music

[TKSop]

There are distinct differences between the earlier and later Mt Vernon 7C's, also - the earlier ones tend towards the NY (more comfortable rim, visually shallower cup) and some of the later Mt Vernon ones (without punctuation) can be more like the modern ones.

It's very much a try it and see kind of thing... For one because we all have our personal preferences and for two because until it's on your hands there's no guarantees of exactly what it'll be like.

[scottfsmith]

Along with the different rim, the Mt. Vernon 7Cs are much more constricted in the throat (the lower part of the cup). This changes the tone produced by a huge amount, its a totally different mouthpiece.

My favorite 7C is one I have from the CORP period (65-69). That one has a wider throat than the Mt. Vernon (and it has the modern 7C rim) but its not as shallow by the top (the so-called alpha angle) as the later CORP. ones so it has a richer tone. The Mt. Vernon ones I prefer the rim on, but their constricted throats limit the dynamics and make the tone thin compared to my CORP guy.

One advantage of 7Cs is you can get them used for next to nothing. Get one each of the different periods and see what you like. Even the Mt. Vernon ones can be had for cheap. I am debating widening the throat on one of mine to see if it could give me the combo of great rim and great sound.

BTW I think a good 7C is one awesome mouthpiece; they have a bad rap as a beginner piece that is hard to shake. My main piece is a $350 Prana and the next best piece in my stable is a $10 7C.
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Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces

[robas92]

I have both a VB Corp and Mt Vernon 7C mouthpieces. The Mt Vernon has a rounder rim and feels better on the lips. The inner cup is narrower with a tighter backbore. I have thin lips and everything feels wider on the VB Corp.

Anyway, I have found that buzzing the Mt Vernon early in my warm-up helps me have a set and focused aperture before switching to my Bobby Shew Jazz. As I have gotten older, a focused buzz is essential for any kind of playing. I would love to get my hands on a Mt Vernon 3C, but the price is never right.

My two cents...
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Kanstul 1503 Bb
74 Bach 37 Bb
Kanstul 1510A C
Kanstul 920 Piccolo
Blessing 154 RT Flugelhorn

Robert A. Smith

--More horns than I can count!!
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Do, or do not, there is no try!!--Yoda

[chapahi]

I have a M.V. Bach 7C cornet mouthpiece. The rim is more comfortable. On the subject of 7C's what about the Curry 7C? I play the Laskey 50C about which Laskey said on his website something like ,"...could be called a Mount Vernon repro but I think I've built a better mouthpiece...". I've used it over the years. Totally comfortable rim.
I also play a Stomvi-USA flex 7F. To make this rim, K.O. said he scanned a bunch of Mt. Vernon 7C's and took the average. It's sharper and narrower than the Laskey but very playable. The cup and backbore are both entirely different animals from any Bach mouthpiece. When I play the MV cornet piece the rim feels almost the same.
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Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super

[Tpt_Guy]

Comparing Mt. Vernon to modern renditions is a bit more complicated.

I've played several Mt. Vernon 7Cs, and a few Mt. Vernon and no-dot Corp 3Cs. No two were alike. In some cases, like the Mt. Vernon 7C cornet piece my son has, it has a fat rim and feels more like a 10 1/2C. My buddy's Corp (no dot) 3C feels more like a 1 1/2C rim profile and cup diameter. One Mt. Vernon 3C I tried felt slightly smaller.

While they are still not as consistent as, say, Curry mouthpieces, I haven't found any such broad differences between modern Bach mpcs.
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-Tom Hall-

"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee

[kehaulani]

If comfort is a problem, remember that a Schilke 11 is roughly the same size but, at least for me, a comfortable mouthpiece. Used one for decades.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[rockford]

Vincent Bach made changes to his mouthpiece designs all the time. Although he didn't always market the changes we have a few clues in the catalogs and brochures and his writings that talk about the "new and improved" rim shape or the "1960 model 7C". These changes rarely coincided with the changes in factory location or exterior font.
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Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190.

[BobD]

Thanks for all the replies. In the end I got a Yamaha 14C4 and 14B4 and they both work great on my 8335ii. Also tried a Marc. E3/3C and it works well also but is brighter than the Yamaha pieces so will be sticking with the Yamaha pieces.
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Adams/ACB collaborative
Yamaha Shew Jazz and Bach 7C

[iiipopes]

[BobD]

Not only do they sound good on Yamaha horns but they play well and intonation is great.
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Adams/ACB collaborative
Yamaha Shew Jazz and Bach 7C