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Vintage Maynard Mouthpiece Question


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RussellDDixon
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theslawdawg wrote:
RussellDDixon wrote:
My favorites of the ones I have played are:

Greg Blacks "Vintage" MF 1 (Giardinelli blank)
Patricks "old style" MF 1 (short shank 25 throat)
Ingram/Pickett Reproduction piece
Lynn Nicholson's Monette Prana piece


Hi Russell!

Can you tell me more about the Nicholson piece?


Just a tad wider diameter than the 50's MF pieces not much though; short shank and plays LOUD. I believe they can be purchased from Lynn.
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RussellDDixon wrote:
theslawdawg wrote:
RussellDDixon wrote:
My favorites of the ones I have played are:

Greg Blacks "Vintage" MF 1 (Giardinelli blank)
Patricks "old style" MF 1 (short shank 25 throat)
Ingram/Pickett Reproduction piece
Lynn Nicholson's Monette Prana piece


Hi Russell!

Can you tell me more about the Nicholson piece?


Just a tad wider diameter than the 50's MF pieces not much though; short shank and plays LOUD. I believe they can be purchased from Lynn.


Thanks Russell. I have his XPiece so why not another one!
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got a used Curry Groovin High MP. Oh man...what a fun mouthpiece. I was a little worried about the rim being a little too round for me but it feels good. I never like using the word effortless but it was fun going in the upper register with it.
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shakuhachi
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Just got a used Curry Groovin High MP. Oh man...what a fun mouthpiece. I was a little worried about the rim being a little too round for me but it feels good. I never like using the word effortless but it was fun going in the upper register with it.


..willcome to the club!

FYI:

If you already using the XPiece from Lynn which is a convex v-cup with #23 bore like the old Jet-Tone MF (but narrower and shallower!), the convex MF pieces (personal have about #19 bore) are really a revelation - it takes a bit time (which nobody is willing to offer...) to accustom but after that.....

I am currently on this one:



...got it from a dude in marketplace trading it with an El Gato (Cat Anderson replica) - he told it is a #18 bore; this one is a Monette Version of the convex Jet-Tone MF Piece and Maynard was using it from 1992 until he changed. I never have known that the first Monette of Maynard was this typ; the popular ones are Monette MF II/III which are conventional design (normal Cup).

In comparison to my Jet-Tone Custom Model MF (#19 bore) this one has a noticeable greater throat entry - great piece.

There are clinics in YouTube from 1994 where Maynard is telling about it (I think it is No 9 about gear>); he said to have a #15 bore at that time.

Interesting that Roger Ingram is telling that Maynard struggles with these greate bores a bit in his oppinion - Roger is using #30 bores.

But currently I like these greater bores but only in conjunction with the convex design.

These "convex" v-cups are magic - full stop.
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome! I think I reached out to that guy because he didn't have any photos and he replied saying he didn't have a camera.....

I'm glad to see it was a real item.
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Yamahaguy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shakuhachi wrote:
These "convex" v-cups are magic - full stop.

+1...have the Greg Black NY version, works perfectly for me.
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RogerIngram
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm back to playing a #28 drill now for my everyday commercial/lead mouthpiece. On the rare occasion that I'm required to perform with my personal V-Cup mouthpiece, I have that one measuring out at a #26 drill now.

Regarding the dimensions of the Vintage Maynard: the drill (hole, bore, throat) size is a 24 (0.152"). The cup is shallow and has a bowl, V shape. The length is 3.217". This mouthpiece length is slightly shorter than most standard Bb trumpet mouthpieces manufactured today. The inner diameter of the rim is about 0.623". Peter Pickett says this about the inner diameter measurement: "this measurement is somewhat arbitrary, given that the bite is soft and just goes into the cup." The outer diameter of the rim is 1.053.

The Vintage Maynard is a perfect, first generation duplicate of the one-of-a-kind custom-made mouthpiece hand-crafted by Domenick Calicchio for Maynard Ferguson in 1955. I still pull out the original from time-to-time for students to try.
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RogerIngram wrote:
I'm back to playing a #28 drill now for my everyday commercial/lead mouthpiece. On the rare occasion that I'm required to perform with my personal V-Cup mouthpiece, I have that one measuring out at a #26 drill now.

Regarding the dimensions of the Vintage Maynard: the drill (hole, bore, throat) size is a 24 (0.152"). The cup is shallow and has a bowl, V shape. The length is 3.217". This mouthpiece length is slightly shorter than most standard Bb trumpet mouthpieces manufactured today. The inner diameter of the rim is about 0.623". Peter Pickett says this about the inner diameter measurement: "this measurement is somewhat arbitrary, given that the bite is soft and just goes into the cup." The outer diameter of the rim is 1.053.

The Vintage Maynard is a perfect, first generation duplicate of the one-of-a-kind custom-made mouthpiece hand-crafted by Domenick Calicchio for Maynard Ferguson in 1955. I still pull out the original from time-to-time for students to try.


Hi Roger!

I used your V-Cup piece for quite a while, and love it, but started having trouble with it for no good reason other than I just did. I felt that the #30 was just too restrictive. I have never really tinkered with throat/bore sizes but after reading your post, I am going to take it to get opened up a bit...or should I say, a lot.

All the best,

Jr
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fox
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the Vintage almost exclusively for everything- pops, big band, even orchestra. It is a bit bright sometimes, warm at other times.

The smaller hole of the newer Patrick does not work for me. It makes my chops less responsive. I thought I was buying the old design which was advertised on his site at the time.

Others I have: Lynn's X piece is shallow and convex. It is just supposed to be a teaching tool. Giardinelli MF2 1975 has a straight V and is deeper, 1978 Jet-tone (convex) is warm and open, Monette MF2 is a more conventional BL type with an open second cup.

All in all, I just like the feel and sound of the Vintage. Thanks Roger for making this available!

Doug
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ZachBandMan
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to give a quick update. About two months ago, I decided to purchase the Ingram V-Cup. So far, I've really been liking it! It is definitely my favorite lead mouthpiece that I've owned so far. The only other lead piece that I have had an extended period of time to use is the Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead, so that is what I will be using as a comparison for much of this.

First off, the Ingram has, by far, the narrowest ID that I have ever owned. My mouthpiece for classical stuff is a Bach 3c, so it is quite a difference. However, I don't really have any issues switching to the Ingram, the issues arise when I switch back to the 3c. Because of this, I don't really use the two in conjunction. The rim on the Ingram is easily the most comfortable that I've played on. The shallow cup has not been an issue so far, and I don't find the throat to be restrictive at all. The upper register is also very solid, with a nice, powerful sound, but not shrill at all.

When compared to the Shew, I feel that the Ingram is overall a much better piece. My range on the Ingram is much better...but not the high range. It was almost impossible for me to play anything lower than a second line G on the Shew, but my low register on the Ingram is just as good as on the 3c, even into the pedal range. The high end of the range is pretty much the same between the two. The sound overall on the Ingram is much better for me than the Shew was. At times, the Shew came off as shrill and unpleasant to the ears. I also had extensive issues with bottoming out on the Shew, but I can't recall ever bottoming out on the Ingram. My only problem with the Ingram is overblowing when I start to tire out, but that's something that I've been working on.

Overall, I am quite happy with my purchase. I would recommend to try one out if you get the chance just to see if it works for you.
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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Zach, I also find Roger's V-cup mouthpiece to be excellent. I find it quite easy to play. And I know he designed it that way. I believe he took the specs from 3 different mouthpieces of Maynard's and worked with a cat over in Europe to develop it. Pickett copied it and may have further tweaked it. I find it to be a really versatile piece in the lead/commercial arena. Can be used in a lot of different situations that are louder. Yep, great sound out of it too! Best, Lex
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ljazztrm wrote:
I also find Roger's V-cup mouthpiece to be excellent. I find it quite easy to play. And I know he designed it that way.


I'm curious if you have an opinion as to the difficult of adjusting to that piece, versus the Nicholson Personal or the Xpiece. Do you think they're quite similar, or does one seem more approachable than the other, for someone that's never really played on a V-cup before?
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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I never tried the Personal, because the diameter seems too big for my chops. I would recommend trying to adjust to the X-Piece, just for your whole playing mechanism. I think the Ingram would be MUCH easier to adjust to than the X-Piece. The X-Piece is supposed to be kind of hard to play! Yeah, of all the V cup MF style mouthpieces I can think of, probably the Holton MF3 or the Ingram V cup would be the easiest to adapt to for someone who's never played that style mouthpiece before. All the best, Lex
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RussellDDixon
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RogerIngram wrote:

Regarding the dimensions of the Vintage Maynard: the drill (hole, bore, throat) size is a 24 (0.152"). The cup is shallow and has a bowl, V shape. The length is 3.217". This mouthpiece length is slightly shorter than most standard Bb trumpet mouthpieces manufactured today. The inner diameter of the rim is about 0.623". Peter Pickett says this about the inner diameter measurement: "this measurement is somewhat arbitrary, given that the bite is soft and just goes into the cup." The outer diameter of the rim is 1.053.

The Vintage Maynard is a perfect, first generation duplicate of the one-of-a-kind custom-made mouthpiece hand-crafted by Domenick Calicchio for Maynard Ferguson in 1955. I still pull out the original from time-to-time for students to try.


My absolute favorite "range" mouthpiece second only to the Lynn Nicholson Monette Prana mouthpiece.
Roger's MF piece is killer !!!
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RussellDDixon
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ljazztrm wrote:
Well I never tried the Personal, because the diameter seems too big for my chops. All the best, Lex


Yes, I have the Nicholson Personal made by James New also and it is a tad wider on the inner diameter; with the #21 drill, you can get some volumn going on that mouthpiece.

For anyone interested, I am selling a Greg Black "NY Legends" MF 1 (Giardinelli blank) in the marketplace as this mouthpiece just doesn't work for me.
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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get it Rusty, Greg Black's MF Holy Grail/Groovin High copy is the NY4. Did he make another copy of the Giardinelli MF1??
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RussellDDixon
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ljazztrm wrote:
I don't get it Russell, Greg Black's MF Holy Grail/Groovin High copy is the NY4. Did he make another copy of the Giardinelli MF1??


Lex,
Says "NY Legends" MF 1 on the tube I am looking at. You have to request "NY Legends" to get the old Giardinelli blank. It is a longer shank, Giradinelli blank and I believe #25 throat (and it feels much tighter to me than the Holy Grail pieces). The Nicholson Monette Prana and Ingram/Pickett reproduction pieces play much more open. Of course they both have shorter shanks and larger throats.

Lynn's Personal piece by James New is a tad wider inner diameter; however, really feels comfortable and the #21 throat makes for a ton of volume.
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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Rusty. I have to assume the Legends/Black NY1 is a copy of the Giardinelli NY1. Best, Lex
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