the C emerges

[chuck in ny]

well it's been a long trumpet journey and high C is finally coming out of the bell. it is at the point of regularly being able to be hit as a pitch and with practice will one day be owned.
a basic and conservative approach has been building my playing, having received embouchure help from pops, judicious use of the PETE device to build chop muscles, daily hammering with the bai lin material, and continual curiosity and concentration on how the embouchure produces sound. likely better expressed as getting a feel for things.
this is a cool milestone with an eye to pushing the register to G in time. it's a quest and why not although academic for someone who has no intention to be a screamer.
plan for the future is more lessons and a slowly expanding practice schedule.

[spitvalve]

Onward and upward!
_________________
Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1979 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
Eastlake Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces

[GeorgeB]

Good for you.
_________________
GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet

[chuck in ny]

[Lionel]

You would be surprised at how few trumpet players have a consistent, musical high C available for most purposes. Now having said that?

Practice room range doesnt come in increments. Tends to arrive in large chunks of a perfect fourth or more. One day you struggle to barely squeak the high C? A week later you get a nasty headache from blowing out your first G above high C. At very loud volume. A tone you'd previously thought impossible.

It is only on the bandstand where we add one note at a time to our musical range. This is because of various real life factors. Such as the fear of hitting clams or upsetting the band director.

If given a choice between practicing more or playing in a lical ensemble? I'd take the town band. As anything which reinforces live performance conditions will make me improve more quickly.
_________________
"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!

Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980).

[Brad361]

[Lionel]

[INTJ]

[John Mohan]

[theslawdawg]

[chuck in ny]

i'm with lionel here. i won't be satisfied until i have the G above high C.
i fortunately do not play commercially and further am not a high register aficionado. it doesn't matter. the instrument has physics that you have to deal with along with having your chops work properly and the other aspects of good procedure. it's a drill, it's a challenge, you do it.

[John Mohan]

[John Mohan]

[MF Fan]

I’ve had two instances in my 45 year amateur playing career where I’ve gained a 4th or better in a relatively short amount of time. The first was in I was in high school and over the summer I went from a solid high C to a G above. That came from playing the 20 minute G out of the Cat Anderson method. It was during this time I taught myself the basics of circular breathing, not well enough to ever use it outside the practice room, but it did enable me to leave the horn on my chops while playing the note for minutes at a time. It was essentially a super-long setting exercise. I gained a 3rd in the course of a couple of weeks, and had the G by the end of the summer. I retained a playable G throughout high school and college, playing lead in a variety of big bands.

The second experience happened within the past 3 months, which was the outcome of changing several variables. I’m going to get a bit long winded here, but who else can I tell this to that would get the significance? 😊

After a 30 year lay-off from the horn, I picked it back up a couple of years ago and started noodling around several days a week purely for the fun of it, no outside playing obligations. My goal was to play with a good sound as efficiently as possible. In that vein, when Lynn Nicolson released his MF Protocol video I bought it along with a small V-cup based on the Calicchio Maynard played in the 50’s. I learned to play the mouthpiece in all registers, but it was very inconsistent. As far as high notes go, I eventually worked up to hitting notes up to double D, but never in a consistent manner that would be reliable enough to use in a performance setting. So while fun to produce notes in that register, it was nothing more than a parlor trick as far as I was concerned, and it wasn’t easily replicated. Fast forward another year and I ended up getting a more middle of the road mouthpiece, a Steve Patrick version of the old Jet Tone 5B. Still small by most standards, but compared to the MF piece it was quite large. Over the past year my sound really opened up and my playable range was up to an F above high C. I had been playing probably 3-4 days a week, an hour at a time.

Over the past three months, two revelations occurred that led to some amazing gains. I stumbled across the “19/30’s” thread that talked about the Bill Adam approach for letting your chops find their own natural setting. It only took a few sessions of experimentation and it fundamentally relaxed my setup, moved my corners forward, etc. My sound really opened up and gave me much more flexibility. I also found my focus automatically shifted to breathing and support. Taking relaxed deep breaths became the focus, the chops seemed to take care of themselves. Hmmmm. My sound is now closer to the sound I’ve had in my head all these years, kind of a mix between Al Hirt, Maynard, and Harry James, a fat, sizzle kind of sound, and it is very efficient. I played that way for a month or so, no exercises, mainly playing standards in the staff, just enjoying the new sound and ease of playing. One day last week I thought to try unfurling a little more and added a little pucker, drawing on my experience with Lynn’s MF Protocol. I immediately found that I was able to play high C much more loudly will little chop effort. Hmmmm….Once I had a solid feeling on the high C, I popped up to the E. Still nice and loud and fat, no more lip effort, but I noticed I was automatically producing more compression in my torso to support it. I experimented a few minutes jumping to the High G and was hitting it solid. After each attempt I went back to low and mid register using my recently acquired 19/30’s set-up and found the sound and flexibility was still there. When I was playing these notes in the past on the Calicchio I’d start swelling and lose everything after 15 minutes. Being able to produce these notes while retaining my target sound and flexibility below high C was a major breakthrough. So I went for broke. Got the high C where I wanted and did the aprpegio C-E-G-DHC. All notes equally loud (FF) and fat. Holy crap! Dropped back down to the low and mid register and everything was still there. I’ve been experimenting with this for the past week and am starting to play tunes in this register. I can replicate it every day, repeatedly and haven’t lost anything below high C. Is it ready for prime-time outside the practice room? No, but now that I have a repeatable system that really works (for me) I’m highly motivated to build on it. I’m focusing on playing extended passages between High C and G, and can push to DHC virtually at will. It’s like I’ve discovered THE FORCE, but I’ve yet to harness it so it’s completely controllable. I eventually run out of gas, but I think it’s my blowing muscles and corners that are finally giving out, it’s not a result of chops swelling from undo pressure. I’m also sticking with my mid-range standards to ensure I’m not over doing it on the high stuff at the expense of the sound and flexibility I’ve gained in the low and mid-registers.

So for me it has been a series of self-discoveries that happened to build on each other and led me to where I’m at as of today. Again, I’m still playing no more than 3-4 hours a week, music not exercises. It wasn't a function of building strength, but finding my optimal set-up in terms of hardware and chops. I think Lynn would probably say I’m finally executing the MF Protocol as it was intended, and he’d probably be right. It just took me two years of experimenting with variables until I got there, and I think the order in which I changed things was also key. Don’t look for me to take over the lead chair in Gordon Goodwin’s band anytime soon, but I sure am having fun!
_________________
MF Fan
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L.A. Benge 5x
Holton MF3
Lead Trumpet - My Basement Jazz Orchestra

[Rod Haney]

Dude if this is a true story then you earned a big congratulations. I’m a big believer in AHA’s and it looks like you found a big one, figure it out and let us know how,!!

But I have to say I’m really rooting for Lionel, when he gets 8 octaves I’m signing up for the 1st lesson.

I really like his thinking on how easy it really is👍. Until I get a good explanation of these methods I guess I’ll just have to keep practicing😥

Hurry up you guys!!!!

Rod

[trumpetplanet]

[Rod Haney]

I certainly don’t own my hi g yet and can only squeak a dbl c about twice a day on a good day so I’m no person to talk about how to do it, but I do have a good set of ears and I have to say something about hearing hi notes played with power and simply sounding a tone.

The TCE demonstrated in background I did not find to be musical, a bit sharp and strident in attack with little core. This isn’t limited to your sound but is what I hear when Callet and his students demonstrate at the shows ive been to (even had a Sima). So yes you can sound very hi notes without lots of air but to me you lose vibrancy and tone when you don’t let the lips work naturally with the wind, and you loose what I consider good articulation. I am not beating up a technique but it’s just been my observation from what I hear. Love to have Callet range, just not his sound.

So yes you can hit hi notes with little air even using normal methods, and also using TCE and wigs but they don’t sound the same and that’s the difference to me, but what I think has ltttle weight.

[trumpetplanet]

[Lionel]

[Rod Haney]

I did not mean that you were un-musical just that method you choose to play the notes results in a sound that does not fit my concept of “good” upper register work. I find that the method sounds too sharp on attack and never reaches a resonance, and Ive never heard a TCE slur. I also find those who don’t use much air support but an extremely strong embouchure have weak upper registers. I think almost everyone who earns a good living playing higher notes must have at least good lungs and proper technique to have a good commercial sound. But like I said that’s just me, and like you I make my choices on the sound I want and You do too. Don’t be upset as it is just an opinion, but the differences in sound are apparent to hear, which sound do you want.
Rod 🙂