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thomasjet123 Regular Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2018 Posts: 16 Location: Yorkshire, England
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:17 pm Post subject: Air |
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Hi all,
I know this will sound like a really stupid question but is there any way to improve my breathing whilst playing? Are there any special tricks or tips that you can give me or am I missing something simple?
Thanks
Thomas |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2578
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Most players don't take deep enough breaths. This is one of the first things Doc Severinsen talks about in clinics.
Another issue is taking your chops off the mouthpiece as you breathe. When you do that you have to reset your embouchure instantly, which can be very inconsistent. So, if you can breathe through your nose that is a plus. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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thomasjet123 Regular Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2018 Posts: 16 Location: Yorkshire, England
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Are there any exercises that help with taking bigger breaths? |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2660 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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It is simple, yet difficult for most to do, as they overcomplicate things.
Try breathing gym as a starting point...
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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Pete Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001 Posts: 1739 Location: Western Massachusetts
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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Maynard, Bud Brisbois, Bobby Shew, Roger Ingram, Wayne Bergeron, Eric Miyashiro and many others use this:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sob/sob09.htm
Skip step #2, holding the breath. You want one continuous inhale/exhale with no hesitation.
Pete |
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dershem Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1885 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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Bill Watrous once told me that one of the keys is to run a mile a day. Once you can do that without strain, start singing as you run. That will build up your breathing, and general health. I used to be able to do that, and it helped. |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2310 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:04 am Post subject: |
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I don't believe you can increase your lung capacity-you have what you have. You can however, get out of your own way, and maximize your potential.
Posture is first, allowing the chest to expand (yes the belly will move out and down-I beleive this a side affect not the primary move)
I think along the lines of what JIm Pandolfi talked about during his "Brass Chat" on Monster.com #29. Breath like a trained singer.. chest high and expand the chest - maintaining that posture as you play -> opera singer position. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Proteus Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2010 Posts: 130 Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Go for a moderate 10-minute walk. As you walk, inhale for 6 steps, hold for six steps, exhale through pursed lips for 6 steps. Repeat. As you increase your capacity, slow your walking speed.
Take a breathing lesson with an opera singer. That'll work, too : ) _________________ Bach 239 C
Kanstul 700
Getzen Proteus 907S Bb
Bach Strad 37 Bb (70s)
ACB Doubler flugel
Getzen Capri cornet |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9828 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:51 am Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: | I don't believe you can increase your lung capacity-you have what you have. You can however, get out of your own way, and maximize your potential.
Posture is first, allowing the chest to expand (yes the belly will move out and down-I beleive this a side affect not the primary move)
I think along the lines of what JIm Pandolfi talked about during his "Brass Chat" on Monster.com #29. Breath like a trained singer.. chest high and expand the chest - maintaining that posture as you play -> opera singer position. |
Great post! Note though that one can increase their lung capacity a bit, just not a whole lot. By always taking a full breath when playing and by doing the breathing exercises I'm about to describe below, with time the rib cage will be able to expand a bit more and lung capacity will increase a little. But as trumpet players, we don't really need to be concerned about capacity. In fact, I believe Rick Baptist doesn't even have two complete lungs. I believe it was the removal of at least a lobe if not more of one of Rick's lungs as a child that prompted his doctor to suggest to his parents that he take up a wind instrument to help rebuild his respiratory capacity.
And it's interesting that back in the 1960's several LA studio trumpet players including Mannie Klein received preliminary diagnoses of emphysema (now called COPD). The reason is because one of the visual assessments to diagnose the disease is the presence of a barrel shaped chest. And these 8-hour-a-day working studio players had barrel shaped chests. Further tests ruled out the condition for these players.
Proteus wrote: | Go for a moderate 10-minute walk. As you walk, inhale for 6 steps, hold for six steps, exhale through pursed lips for 6 steps. Repeat. As you increase your capacity, slow your walking speed.
Take a breathing lesson with an opera singer. That'll work, too : ) |
Another great post! You nearly described the Claude Gordon walking breathing exercises. To also build up the blowing muscles while doing this exercise one should also walk six steps while empty and continuing to blow (not hard, just a little bit of blowing effort while empty).
• Breath in for six steps.
• Hold full for six steps (but stay relaxed - you should be able to count out loud while full and not have any signs of strain in your voice).
• Blow out for six steps.
• Continue to blow though empty for six steps.
• Lather, rinse, repeat for at least 10 minutes (20 minutes is better).
It's best to start with five steps and then after a few weeks, move up to six steps. Then every few weeks keep adding a step until ultimately you can do the exercise with ten step intervals (might not be possible for older people). If you start feeling out of breath while doing the exercise, pause and get your breath back then reduce the number of steps and/or walk a little slower.
One caveat: Claude would instruct students to "hold empty" for those final six steps. But in my experience this tended to build up isometric tension between the muscles of inspiration and expiration, which is not good (we don't want the antagonistic sets of breathing muscles fighting each other - this would be a very bad habit to allow to creep into our playing). I find it's best (and also promotes more of a workout) to just continue blowing for those six empty steps. While doing them, one can place the palm of their hand in front of their mouth and still feel a little airflow during those final six steps. Do this for 20 minutes and you'll know you've given those blowing muscles a bit of a work out.
Lastly, concerning the OP's question about how to learn to take full breaths, the answer is pretty simple. Make it a point to take full breaths each and every time you take in air when practicing - even if you are only going to play one note. With time the habit will form. And of course, making regular practice of the above breathing exercises will make that habit develop faster.
Best wishes,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:21 am Post subject: |
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The body isn't very good at feeling air entering and leaving the body so we have to find other ways to observe it. The outward physical motions associated with breathing don't tell much either. For inhalations listen for a resonant rush of air. Sticking a finger in front of your lips like a shush can exaggerate this sound. Listen for an open whoosh. For the exhalation, practice wind - blow on pieces of paper, pinwheels, etc and move them. Worry less about building anything up and instead just learn how to move the air - allow the visual stimulus of the paper or pinwheel to guide the movement of air.
I like the breathing gym and the Jacobs exercises to build this awareness. Allow the body to move as needed in reaction to the stimulus of the sound of rushing air and moving the piece of paper. Focusing on the motion of body movements with regards to wind has always been counterproductive for me and my students. The Jacobs breathing devices are helpful as well for developing this awareness. Many great players play well into old age - awareness will hold up better than strength.
The Bill Adam bubble exercise is also helpful.
As important as wind is, it is still subservient to the stimulus of the musical imagination. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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When my teacher was young he studied with Claude Gordon. Many many years later Claude called his house. His wife told him that his former student was out doing his walking/breathing exercise. When my teacher returned home he called him back. Claude said, "you're still doing those?". To which my teacher responded, "you never told me to stop!". _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6126 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Practice playing longer phrases. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9828 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:57 am Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: | When my teacher was young he studied with Claude Gordon. Many many years later Claude called his house. His wife told him that his former student was out doing his walking/breathing exercise. When my teacher returned home he called him back. Claude said, "you're still doing those?". To which my teacher responded, "you never told me to stop!". |
But to be clear, while I'm sure Claude was pleasantly surprised that his former student was still doing the exercise, he did not want anyone to ever stop doing them. And yes, I still do them (not every day, though that is my goal). |
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Jerry Freedman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2002 Posts: 2476 Location: Burlington, Massachusetts
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:10 am Post subject: |
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As an asthmatic ( taught by an asthmatic) I have to be careful about breathing exercises which can set off an attack. The Claude Gordon practice of emptying the lungs could really screw things up for instance. I could probably try the Maynard/Bobby Shew breathing but I would be careful. Any thoughts on this problem? |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2578
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Here's the link to the Rafael Mendez video in which he talks about building lung capacity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUij8FCg0z8
He also talks about efficiency in using air.
It's a very impressive demonstration of what's possible. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9828 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Jerry Freedman wrote: | As an asthmatic ( taught by an asthmatic) I have to be careful about breathing exercises which can set off an attack. The Claude Gordon practice of emptying the lungs could really screw things up for instance. I could probably try the Maynard/Bobby Shew breathing but I would be careful. Any thoughts on this problem? |
I just spent some time researching and I found a lot of journal articles and websites including that of the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma & Immunology (AAAAI), and many of them recommend doing deep breathing exercises similar to the Claude Gordon ones, with the emphasis being to take slow breathes, as frequent short, shallow breaths cause asthma exacerbations.
Have you or your teacher personally experienced an asthma attack brought on specifically from emptying your lungs? If so, of course you'll want to avoid doing that.
If you cannot do exercises that completely empty your lungs, there are certainly ways of developing blowing strength that don't require your lungs to be completely emptied. Playing the Clarke exercises, not to the point of being empty, but perhaps to the point of being still 1/3 full, but taking them up to the top of your register will certainly build blowing strength. I know that when I do a Clarke Study up to the top written one and perhaps a few steps beyond (depending on which Study), even if I am taking breaths whenever I get below half empty during the exercises, by the time I finish the study, I can feel my blowing muscles have gotten a good workout (along with all the other involved muscles such as the lips and face).
Best wishes,
John |
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