Airstream question

[Proteus]

I used to believe that the direction of the airstream relative to the throat of the mouthpiece cup really didn't matter all that much, since the air had to exit through that little hole anyway no matter from which direction it entered.

Then I changed my embouchure to lower the angle slightly, thereby changing the angle that the airstream entered the mouthpiece...and wow - what a difference.

So is this just me, or this something that is generally accepted as being Really Important as a basic element of one's embouchure?

Thanks.
_________________
Bach 239 C
Kanstul 700
Getzen Proteus 907S Bb
Bach Strad 37 Bb (70s)
ACB Doubler flugel
Getzen Capri cornet

[epoustoufle]

I have to ask... how do you change just one thing, the direction of the airstream? Seems to me changing the direction of the airstream means you're also changing the overlap of top/bottom lip, the size and shape of the aperture and probably jaw position too.

There's some interesting videos on youtube (Mystery to Mastery) that kind of discuss embouchure, air, etc. in a non-dogmatic way. Obviously I don't play like Greg Spence but I do like how he teaches his experiences to others. He didn't start with a "natural gift", he learnt how to do it like most of us regular chumps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSx769PanaQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA2QAw-GCP4

[NevadaBigHorn]

I'm not smart enough to offer advise on air stream direction (or am I too smart ) but I can tell you that there is a marked improvement in range and ease of play when I aim the horn a few degrees above the horizon then straight or below the horizon. That's my experience.
_________________
Scott

[Tpt_Guy]

I suggest posting this revelation in the Donald S. Reinhardt forum. Lots of good data there about why airstream direction makes a difference.


_________________
-Tom Hall-

"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee

[Dave CCM/SSO]

I think the direction of your air can definitely make a difference. Finding a set that allows for the most natural delivery of the air through the mouthpiece can help tremendously.

The key is finding a set that feels natural and doesn't require strange manipulation. If you're liking the sound with your newly found set, go with it!!

Dave
_________________
Dave

Springfield Symphony Orchestra (OH)
- www.springfieldsym.org
Seven Hills Brass
- http://www.facebook.com/sevenhillsbrass

[bach_again]

[Lionel]

[TKSop]

Lionel - the reason he distinguishes by airstream direction is because you DO get receded jaw players who are upstream (type 4a), I know several of them in meatspace... And there are huge differences between the potential pitfalls for those players and other receded jaw types (most 3b's, if we're playing with stereotypes).



The other potential observation here is that we simply don't know what exactly the OP has changed... It's painfully easy to think we're changing (or simply doing) one thing when we're actually doing something quite different.

How do we know, for instance, that the OP has truly changed what's going on inside the mouthpiece here?

A lower horn angle (for example) might be expected by some to change the airstream angle a bit, but it could just as easily be a change in pressure distribution (how much of the force, whatever it's magnitude, of the mouthpiece is on the top vs bottom lip), or it could be a change in posture (neck straighter resulting in a natural downward angle for many players if they've been trying to keep the angle "straight out" by leaning the head back and creating tension in the throat as a result)...


There's really a whole bunch of stuff that could be happening here to give the impression described, and it'd all result in a different feel and potentially noticeable progress if gotten right (or closer to).


And so we're back to that most basic of advice....
Get a good teacher, the best you possibly can.

[Proteus]

The OP replies:

Thanks everyone for the feedback and observations. To clarify: all I did by way of change was to lower the horn a few degrees. Most definitely I felt an immediate reduction of pressure off the top lip, and ease of tone production, centering of the sound and endurance improved almost right away. This was a surprise, because I am definitely *not* a pressure player - but the difference was a revelation.

The other thing I noticed was that my airstream is now pointed more directly right into the throat, and this was the reason for my original question...wondering if the improvement was more than just the pressure reduction, but also airstream-related.

The other changes resulting from the lowered angle include the appearance of a more "natural" embouchure ie. rather than me trying to consciously form one, it now forms itself...naturally. This reminds me of one of my teacher's comments that it's often not what we're not doing that impedes our progress, but what we're doing too much of (ie. tension, unnatural alignments, contortions to fit pre-conceived ideas of how chops should be or what they should look like). I'm not aware of making any other changes involving head angles, neck tension, whatever.

I think this argues for at least an intermediate player to at some point make a deliberate effort to explore what I'll call the 'inner and outer parameters' of lip & mouthpiece placement, angle, everything, in order to find for oneself the sweet spot that produces the most resonant, centered sound with the highest efficiency and comfort/ease of playing.

I find it interesting that I stumbled upon this myself, though, and never heard anyone talk about it in university. In fact, when I got an impromptu lesson several years ago from my now-long-retired trumpet teacher who played principal in several excellent orchestras in his day, he was adamant that the lower jaw must be projected forward until a pencil held between the upper and lower jaw was horizontal - and that would be the perfect playing set-up (no, I don't have a pronounced underbite, either) and I've been trying to make that work for several years with only fair results.

A top commercial player in Montreal has said the same thing...but with the objective of taking the pressure off the top lip. But then there's Paul Merkelo, principal in the Montreal Symphony, who is definitely very much a downstream player. Hence the need for informed exploration of what works best for each of us...

Cheers!
_________________
Bach 239 C
Kanstul 700
Getzen Proteus 907S Bb
Bach Strad 37 Bb (70s)
ACB Doubler flugel
Getzen Capri cornet

[TKSop]

Since the Reinhardt board was mentioned, you'll find something very similar being described over there as "finding the legs" - I found that rather eye opening, as you have.