Best horn design for dark tone

[bach_again]

INTJ is right.

If you can't sound dark on a CG 3 mouthpiece the problem is you, not the gear.

Since you didn't answer any of the questions I posed, I presume you want to buy your dark sound. That's fine. It's a long and slow process where you will realise it is less about the gear and more about your approach, within reason.

The darkest sound I can think is the Curry TF mouthpiece - as you want to experiment - buy one of these as they aren't expensive, and see how you fare. You can hear this on my Martin about 1:20 into this video:


Link


Sound concept and approach... listen to to Arturo in this video - there's some VERY good advice herein.


Link


Mike
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[derekthor]

Buy a cornet or a flugelhorn if you want a "dark" tone. If you're looking for a rich, full trumpet sound, you're probably going to have to think a lot more about your basic approach to sound production.

A friend of mine who went to UT Austin told me about an exchange another student there had with Paul Merkelo, who was visiting to give a masterclass:

PM: "You have a very dark sound."

Student: "Thank you."

PM: "That wasn't a compliment. A sound that's too dark is dull and lifeless."

I'd also encourage you to read through this: http://grmouthpieces.blogspot.com/2013/04/bright-vs-dark-trumpet-sound.html. I think the last paragraph is the best:

[kehaulani]

Well, that depends on context, doesn't it? I would use a different sound concept for lead, big band trumpet than in a jazz combo. The sounds don't have to carry the same.

And one man's dull and lifeless might be just the sound another is seeking. And also, the term dark is being used in contrast to bright.

OP, if I were you, I'd continue my search for a dark horn. But keep in mind that you probably still want that inherent sound to project and not be muffled. And it's a good point to have a clear, developed concept of just the exact sound you want.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[vwag]

I agree with all the above, but I esp agree that the mpc has the biggest impact. I have the Curry TF (Trumpet FLugel) and I can go dark on my 37 with it. I had an A9 and it does have a very unique tone, very fun to play and try out. My A4 arrives today (courtesy Trent) and I believe it will be very versatile as well.

I do feel that with increased volume and the higher up the staff, the less it will sound 'dark'. Even with a flugelhorn.

[VintageFTW]

If you absolutely must insist on a change in equipment, mouthpiece or horn alike, then I would suggest looking into the Jupiter XO 1602 series. They play exceptionally well and tend towards producing a VERY dark, orchestral tone with lots of core and power. That has at least been my experience. Another horn I get a very full and rich tone on is surprisingly a 1952-54 Bach 43.

I should add that my idea of the ultimate "dark" tone is along the lines of Gábor Tarkövi.
Keep in mind that Roy Hargrove's tone is also considered "dark." The difference is that his tone would called "smokey," while Gábor's would be considered powerful and commanding. That's not to say a tone that is considered "smokey" can't be powerful as well... just listen to Arturo when choosing to play like that.
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1880's Thompson & Odell Boston
1880's L&H "Henry Gunckel" Sole Agent Cornet
1903 L&H "Improved Own Make"
Early 1900's Marceau Cornet *B&F Stencil
1922 Holton-Clarke Cornet
1954 Elkhart built by Buescher 37b
...And many more

[OldSchoolEuph]

Dark is not dull or lifeless - necessarily. Yes, there are horns that mute so much of the spectrum that they sound lifeless - dark, but no longer like a trumpet.

The original post included this description of the issue for which advice is sought: "when I let loose on it and increase in range and dynamic, my tone becomes more bright and brilliant". This is not uncommon - in fact on lighter weight designs, it is downright normal. There is a horn that is designed specifically to remain warm/"dark" at all dynamics. That is the Austin Winds Stage 466, which is built to their design by Taylor in Great Britain. It is dark, but still sounds like a trumpet. - Unfortunately, you have to go to Austin to get one.

I was a skeptic of the buzz about Austin Winds (not to be confused with Austin Custom Brass), so I went there - I wound up buying one. The hype is mostly substance in this (rare) case.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[VintageFTW]

I do believe another horn that is designed to stay dark but still trumpet-ey at all dynamics is one of the Schagerl James Morrison models. I think it might be the JM2, but I'm not sure.
_________________
1880's Thompson & Odell Boston
1880's L&H "Henry Gunckel" Sole Agent Cornet
1903 L&H "Improved Own Make"
Early 1900's Marceau Cornet *B&F Stencil
1922 Holton-Clarke Cornet
1954 Elkhart built by Buescher 37b
...And many more

[RussellDDixon]

[Andy Del]

The OP can essentially give up on thinking about instrument or mouthpiece. Regardless of all the well meaning commentary about this or that mpc or instrument, there are far too many players who can do exactly what he wants on any instrument or mouthpiece to warrant the expense that is being thought of.

Unless your horn is faulty, then it's off to the practice room to do some hard yards.

And to be even more precise, I have one student who played on a 3C last time I heard him in a jazz setting. Being it was a modern group doing some pretty way out stuff, he could go from fluffy, dark, soft to very loud brilliant golden sounds and also fun rich orchestral sound at any dynamic in about a heartbeat. By that time, we had both studied with the same orchestral player (me last century) and I could hear his amazing sound, plus Baker, Dizzy and a fair whack of Maynard all coming from the same young guy.

Actually, he sounds just as good on his rather expensive Monette, but feels he can create the sounds he wants more easily. Having played the trumpet, I tend to agree, but I can still do what I want on mine, or the one in my teaching studio at work, my very first horn etc. etc. It's all in my head.

What one can do, we can all do, or at least aspire to do.

So again, unless your horn is faulty, then it's off to the practice room to do some hard yards.

cheers

Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes...

[bach_again]

[jojocat]

[jojocat]

Seriously, if the OP is looking for a dark horn that doesn't sound dull or lifeles, I would highly recommend to get a Martin Handcraft Imperial. If Committee model is reknowned for its dark and warm tone, the Handcraft Imperial sounds even darker.

That's the same model Mike sowed in his video. I have one too and I love it to death! Using my Donat 169C with it, the sound has a gorgeous warmth to it.
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Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
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Accent 781

[Crazy Finn]

[kehaulani]

Wouldn't you say, though, that while you can compensate for the equipment with a clear vision of what you want to sound like, that some equipment has propensities in one direction and others in another?
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[shofarguy]