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AwesomeDad
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Joined: 22 Aug 2017
Posts: 161
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 Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:51 pm Post subject: Getzen 4895 |
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Ok for the past week I had one on loan for test play.
What I liked
Obviously the valves were fantastic.
The case was phenomenal.
The three mouthpipes it came with did offer different sound characteristics.
Now the bad
It was consistently 20 cents flat in all registers of the 1st valve. I had two other people play it and that was the consensus. (Yes a tuner was used)
It could be lipped up but the effort required made it problematic.
Now I figured well it’s probably just this horn.
So I found another one in stock and had them check it before sending it to me.
And they said they had issue with F,G,&G# so I didn’t bother having it shipped.
So as much as I really wanted to love this horn I will keep looking.
JJ |
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NevadaBigHorn
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Joined: 23 Sep 2015
Posts: 82
Location: Minden, NV
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Again, how do these make it out of the factory? QC people!
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Scott |
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
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Location: AZ
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, that's what I experienced at ITG a couple of years back. It wasn't good.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Dayton
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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That's unfortunate, and must have been frustrating. Have you considered the 3895? I've never played the 4895, but thought that the 3895 was an awesome horn.
Good luck on your hunt! |
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AwesomeDad
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Joined: 22 Aug 2017
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Dayton wrote: | That's unfortunate, and must have been frustrating. Have you considered the 3895? I've never played the 4895, but thought that the 3895 was an awesome horn.
Good luck on your hunt! |
As I had posted elsewhere I’m still considering a Conn Vintage One and an Adams F5. Now I don’t know what the odds of me finding 2 in a row with issues on the Getzen but I don’t think I’ll take a chance on a 3rd...
JJ |
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GuidoCorona
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Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 377
Location: Summerville, SC
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Given these reports, I m concerned that the pitch problem on 4895 may be endemic to this model... I am wondering if perhaps, the current 12 months wait expected on new factory orders might be caused by some design rework that 4895 might be currenly undergoing to fix the flaw.
Regards, Guido
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Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo |
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F.E. Olds Nut
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Joined: 15 Mar 2010
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Location: Detroit
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| Dayton wrote: | That's unfortunate, and must have been frustrating. Have you considered the 3895? I've never played the 4895, but thought that the 3895 was an awesome horn.
Good luck on your hunt! |
I owned a 3895 for a few years and struggled with intonation throughout the horn.
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Del Quadro "The Mother" |
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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I know the OP has probably made his decision, but just in case not...
I have owned a Kanstul 1025 that had wonderful intonation. The only caveat to that is that their modular mouthpiece system was too long with the Bach-style lead pipe and I could not tune it up to pitch using that setup. I changed the tuning bit to a French taper type. This cured the tuning problem and made the horn sound soooo much better.
The two Wild Thing flugelhorn I have owned both have such good intonation that I never really have no need to think about it, save for using the third valve trigger for the low notes.
Kanstul has got the intonation problem with flugelhorn solved.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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TKSop
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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20 cents flat on all 1st valve combo's (should be less with 1+2, 1+3, 1+2+3) should be an incredibly simple problem to fix... shorten the 1st slide.
That said, if there are other issues with intonation (let's be fair, a lot of flugelhorns need a bit of manipulation - some more than others) then that's not good.
At the end of the day, it's quite a personal choice - and you've definitely done the right thing getting one on trial to either fall in love with or disregard... and so - on to the next? |
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AwesomeDad
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Joined: 22 Aug 2017
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| TKSop wrote: | 20 cents flat on all 1st valve combo's (should be less with 1+2, 1+3, 1+2+3) should be an incredibly simple problem to fix... shorten the 1st slide.
That said, if there are other issues with intonation (let's be fair, a lot of flugelhorns need a bit of manipulation - some more than others) then that's not good.
At the end of the day, it's quite a personal choice - and you've definitely done the right thing getting one on trial to either fall in love with or disregard... and so - on to the next? |
I don’t disagree. The store that has it is taking measurements. I just couldn’t take the chance on not being able to fix it. And you are correct other combinations was spot on. I can email you the clip it’s about 15 mins long.
JJ |
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TKSop
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1735
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| AwesomeDad wrote: | | TKSop wrote: | 20 cents flat on all 1st valve combo's (should be less with 1+2, 1+3, 1+2+3) should be an incredibly simple problem to fix... shorten the 1st slide.
That said, if there are other issues with intonation (let's be fair, a lot of flugelhorns need a bit of manipulation - some more than others) then that's not good.
At the end of the day, it's quite a personal choice - and you've definitely done the right thing getting one on trial to either fall in love with or disregard... and so - on to the next? |
I don’t disagree. The store that has it is taking measurements. I just couldn’t take the chance on not being able to fix it. And you are correct other combinations was spot on. I can email you the clip it’s about 15 mins long.
JJ |
You could if you like, but I'm not gonna have time to get to it anytime soon.
Based on what you've said, you're probably making the right decision to try something different - if nothing else, being comfortable and trusting of your instrument is important and often undervalued. |
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AwesomeDad
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Joined: 22 Aug 2017
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | I know the OP has probably made his decision, but just in case not...
I have owned a Kanstul 1025 that had wonderful intonation. The only caveat to that is that their modular mouthpiece system was too long with the Bach-style lead pipe and I could not tune it up to pitch using that setup. I changed the tuning bit to a French taper type. This cured the tuning problem and made the horn sound soooo much better.
The two Wild Thing flugelhorn I have owned both have such good intonation that I never really have no need to think about it, save for using the third valve trigger for the low notes.
Kanstul has got the intonation problem with flugelhorn solved. |
I ordered an Adams F5 and so the waiting begins...
JJ |
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TKSop
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1735
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| AwesomeDad wrote: | | shofarguy wrote: | I know the OP has probably made his decision, but just in case not...
I have owned a Kanstul 1025 that had wonderful intonation. The only caveat to that is that their modular mouthpiece system was too long with the Bach-style lead pipe and I could not tune it up to pitch using that setup. I changed the tuning bit to a French taper type. This cured the tuning problem and made the horn sound soooo much better.
The two Wild Thing flugelhorn I have owned both have such good intonation that I never really have no need to think about it, save for using the third valve trigger for the low notes.
Kanstul has got the intonation problem with flugelhorn solved. |
I ordered an Adams F5 and so the waiting begins...
JJ |
Fingers crossed  Adams make some good horns, hopefully this one is right up your street |
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EdMann
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Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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Location: The Big Valley
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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At that price point, I'd move on. The Adams is amazing. I am surprised, though. Getzens are generally ohhhh so good.
ed |
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AwesomeDad
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Joined: 22 Aug 2017
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| EdMann wrote: | At that price point, I'd move on. The Adams is amazing. I am surprised, though. Getzens are generally ohhhh so good.
ed |
I had heard great things and was hopeful. And was willing to try another one but after the shops assessment of it I wasn’t gonna waste the money in shipping...
JJ |
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RandyTX
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Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 5299
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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I have only one issue with the Adams product line.
It's too widely varied and under-explained, especially when the nearest dealer is 1000 miles away.
I have no idea how (especially the trumpet models) differ from each other apart from appearance cues. Similarly with their flugels. Apart from knowing the F5 has short-throw valves, I don't have any clue what its playing characteristics might be relative to the other models in the line, or other flugels on the market, like the one as the subject of this thread, or one from Yamaha or Kanstul.
I would really like some sort of comparison matrix, similar to what some other brands provide, to help you understand more about the tonal or playing differences between the models.
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"Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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TrumpetMD
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2412
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Getzen 4895 |
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| AwesomeDad wrote: | | It was consistently 20 cents flat in all registers of the 1st valve. |
For me, the first valve is flat on all Getzen Flugelhorns. This includes the 896, which I've owned for 40 years, as well as the 3895 and 4895. At the same time other notes on the Getzen are more in-tune than other brands (especially noted below the staff).
For me, all flugelhorns play out of tune in some way.
On the Yamaha 631, low C and B are flat, and low G and F# are sharp. Same is true of all 631 clones I've tried, including Jupiter 846, ACB, JZ, and several others.
On the Kanstul 1525, third-valve combinations are flat, especially Ab and Eb.
On the Bach 183 and Conn V1, notes around A on the staff are sharp (G, A, Bb). It's been a while, but maybe F on the staff was flat on the 183, too.
I can go on. Some horns were better than others, including Carol, Kanstul, and the higher-end Yamaha horns. I haven't tried Adams.
Other people's experiences may be different from mine, either due to their level of expertise, their approach to playing, or something else. That's okay. I'm not trying to debate anyone, or question anyone's experience. In the end, you have to figure out what works for you. I'm still looking.
Mike
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Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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RandyTX
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Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 5299
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Getzen 4895 |
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| TrumpetMD wrote: | | On the Kanstul 1525, third-valve combinations are flat, especially Ab and Eb. |
True, though I'm used to it now, and I think it's a bit better with the french taper pipe instead of the stock one. Still, given they all have a trigger, I can't help but wonder why they are like this.
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"Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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