Lessons for Adults vs younger students

[RandyLongwill]

What are effective ways to teaching beginning lessons to adult students in comparison to younger elementary or middle school students?

[trickg]

That's a really good question. One of the things that I think it would be important to stress to an adult student that won't really have to be stressed to a younger student, is to temper their expectations for how much they can learn, and how quickly they can learn. Younger students don't seem to have an issue - they are happy to be playing and simple tunes out of the early method books are just fine for them. Adult students want to be able to do more faster, and they often wrongly assume that just because they are older and have better self-discipline than a kid might have, that they are going to progress more quickly.

I often wonder about adults who get back into playing after a long hiatus, or who embark upon trying to learn to play the trumpet from scratch because it takes a long time to develop the embouchure, technical facility and musicianship to be able to play something and not sound like an amateur.

Otherwise, it's much the same - an adult has to learn all of the same fundamentals as a younger student.
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[khedger]

trickg give good advice here. I've had a lot of adult students show up with histories playing in church and school bands. Most of them are mediocre players when they arrive who have never practiced the horn seriously. They say things like they want to learn to play like Clifford Brown or Louis Armstrong. A few weeks in, they want to know how long they have to keep practicing these exercises and stuff and when they'll be blowing like Louis. It's surprising how many just don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that it's a long, arduous process, not an instant gratification thing.
After a few of those, I got really good at sussing out new students who were looking for the quick fix. Most of them didn't come back after the first interview because I really hammered it home about what it takes to reach that level of expertise.

[Croquethed]

Unrealistic expectations have sunk many an expedition.

There is nothing wrong with competent mediocrity for an amateur hobbyist (to draw athetic parallels, shooting bogey golf or skiing intermediate trails still provide a lot of enjoyment). I guess the sticking point is to define competent mediocrity, and to instill the concept that "competent" and "complacent" do not mean the same thing.

[jhahntpt]

As has been said, their expectations are what kill everything. It's not that they cannot learn. They likely can learn far faster from a theoretical standpoint than a young student, but their expectation for physically being able to play the instrument will kill them.
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[VetPsychWars]

What really helped me as an adult student were two things:

First, it took me ten years to learn to play the horn to the proficiency I had as a kid when I quit.

Second, stop trying so hard! You can muscle things around as a kid that you can't as an adult. Learn to let go, use finesse, don't overblow, relax, and so forth.

Tom
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[Billy B]

Adult students in general are less creative and more analytical than kids.
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[Richard III]

Maturity and self motivation doesn't always come with age. But when they do, life is easier for the teacher. When I took lessons as an adult, I just needed some tools. I didn't need to be pushed or reminded to practice. I didn't need a lesson every week. Thankfully my teacher didn't treat me like a child. He asked what I needed and provided it to me.
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[starkadder]

[rufflicks]

Treat children like adults and adults like children LOL
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[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

I fiddled along with my kids on violin and that was actually part of the impetus to return to trumpet. With violin, I played half-heartedly for about two years. I'm in the second book, but I still sound really horrible and I'm easily a decade away from sounding good. I can play simple songs, but I'm not onto different positions, bow strokes, etc. Maybe I put in 200 hours over two years (I have limited practice time, usually supervising the kids).

I realized that on trumpet I'd probably done 2000 hours over seven or so years and coming back to trumpet would be a lot easier. I could play along in church immediately and sound pretty good (to people who don't know brass). I actually am right back where I was at the end of high school--I don't feel like I've lost that much. I do need a trumpet teacher and I (maybe?) need some goals. Am I happy to be able to play along in church and join a band if one is available? I think so.

For adult learners, we also have different goals. One thing I also found exhausting about the violin players is they're endlessly debating how far can adults go, what are the limits of starting late, etc. It felt more elitist. I feel like with trumpet there are a lot more options for types of music to play, and also that there's a robust amateur tradition. The instruments are also honestly fun. I've bought several used-but-looks-new instruments. I've ordered a flugabone, and will probably be able to play along pretty well in a few weeks (playing off treble clef). The truth is that playing the kiddie songs forever and not sounding good is kind of horrible. I don't know how to get adult learners through that hump. I won't (probably ever) be competing with the pros here for gigs, but hopefully this can be a good hobby.

[trickg]

I wanted to add something here that I didn't mention in the first part of the thread, and it follows the theme of the idea that many adult starters have unrealistic expectations.

As a kid who started in 5th grade, I started to excel in the middle of 7th grade, and continued to excel for the rest of my time in school prior to graduating from high school. I was a good trumpet player for a high school kid - All State and other honor bands, awards at solo and ensemble contests, etc. Even with that, I was 17 and nearly 7 years into it before I started to play with a level of finesse and polish that could be considered something beyond solid mediocrity, and I didn't get to where I was really playing with professional polish until I was into my 2nd year as a full-time active duty Army Bandsman.

Suffice it to say, it takes time for anyone to become proficient.

But to continue with the unrealistic expectations theme, I embarked upon learning to play drums when I was 33 years old. I'd always wanted to try my hand at it, and I could always play beats and grooves behind the kit, so I figured that as an experienced musician already, picking up drums would be a pretty quick thing.

I was wrong.

I got by well enough, but recordings don't lie, and I was able to get my hands on a lot of the board feed recordings from the worship bands I was drumming for. Guess how long it took before I got to a point where I could play with a level of finesse and polish and sound like something beyond solid mediocrity, and I didn't cringe listening to the playback from the board feed recordings.

About 5-6 years.

I managed to shave a little bit of time off, probably because as an experienced musician I already had practice strategies and approaches that I didn't have to learn, but suffice it to say, there were no shortcuts to becoming proficient - it was a lot of time behind the kit, working on it.
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

Trickg's comments are true for me. I think for adult learners it's worth kind of laying out the motivational aspects. For me, this was knowing: (1) I may always be horrible at the new instrument, (2) it's okay to quit, (3) there's some real fun in noodling around as an amateur and if that's as far as you go, that's okay. Maybe someday I'll play second viola or bass in a seniors group--you never know.

I was totally oblivious to strings before, and now I'm not. I got a better sense of rhythm and intonation. Playing a C instrument was helpful. I had fun with the kids. I'd guess it's the same for new adult trumpet players. You get to play a shiny instrument, you learn about new genres that maybe you didn't know (jazz, big band, etc.). Fun times!

[JetJaguar]

[trickg]

[Pops]

With good advice and a great practice routine they can get good in 1/2 the time a kid can. A kid works 6th grade -12th or 7 years.
An adult COULD match that in 3 and 1/2 years BUT you can't baby them. After the 1st month they are always jogging and not walking.
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