A little puzzle (Vacchiano - Prager - Glanz trumpet section)

connloyalist

I was hesitating whether to put this in the horns or orchestral section, so a bit of both here.

Several years ago I picked up two "vintage" Conn posters on eBay. Both were printed in 1936. I framed one of them and it now hangs on my living room wall. It says "These great artists and conductors of the New York Philharmonic - Symphony Society of New York use or endorse Conn instruments". It has pictures of several well known conductors (including Toscanini) and the following picture:

Click the picture to enlarge. Please excuse the reflection from the glass.

So here is a little puzzle. Mark you, I don't have the answers either, but maybe we can figure this out together.

1. When, or between which dates, was this picture taken? The poster was printed in August 1936, so not later than that date.

2. Was this indeed the brass section of the NY Phil? Or actually some other orchestra?

3. Which of these gentlemen wasn't playing a Conn? My guess would be the bass (Vincenzo Vanni), but I am not sure.

4. Which models are the others playing?
Roy Haines (back left) appears to have a 70H bass trombone. The braces on Nathan Prager's trumpet can only be a 2B New World Symphony.... if it is a Conn (a bit hard to tell from this angle).

Any ideas?

Regards, Christine
_________________
There is nothing more permanent than a temporary solution.

connloyalist · Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 2:59 am Post subject:

I suppose it is "not done" to answer my own question here, but a little googling brings up this:

Nathan Prager joined the NY Phil in 1929, with Vachiano and Glanz already there. So the picture must have been taken between '29 and '36.

I also found that Roy Haines did indeed play a 70H and that George Lucas used a 78H. Yes, I know this is a trumpet forum

Regards, Christine
_________________
There is nothing more permanent than a temporary solution.

Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1887

Christine, do you know if their horns were free?

connloyalist · Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 5:09 am Post subject:

Jay Lichtmann · Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject:

Prager's horn does not appear to be a Conn. Check out the braces, it looks like a Bach.
_________________
In his retirement he had become that most dreaded of former athletes, the one who always remembered how much harder it was in his day "when ships were made of wood and men were made of steel."
Samuel Abt on Eddy Merx

gringoloco · Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject:

I was thinking the same. Looks like a Bach to me.

And...why would you need five trombones and only three trumpets?
_________________
Laskey/Pinc C
Bach/Laskey Conversion C
Bach MV/Laskey-Pinc ML Bb
Bach NY M Bb
Bach/Melk Eb
Schilke P7-4
Schilke A2C cornet
King Silversonic Bb/A cornet
Melk PVAs
Stork Custom mouthpieces

connloyalist · Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 12:07 am Post subject:

brishook1 · Regular Member Joined: 22 Jun 2003 Posts: 34

This is a great photo, Christine. I believe I have some helpful information for you.

William Vacchiano joined the NYP in 1935, so this picture could not have been taken before then.

The reason there are on 3 trumpets is because Max Schlossberg was very ill at this time. Vacchiano joined the NYP as third/assistant principal and Schlossberg was fourth. Harry Glantz left in 1942 to go to NBC with Toscanini and that is when Vacchiano became principal.

All of the musicians in the picture were members of the NYP at one time, save for Robert Paolucci who (according to Wikipedia, not my favorite source) played with CBS.

Best,
Brian
www.williamvacchiano.com

EdMann · Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:53 am Post subject:

Pros from all over the east coast were well aware of Bach's reputation for horns, new as it might be. My 1929 was originally purchased by Richard Shuebruk, former principal trumpet of the Boston Symphony. It's not unlikely that any of the NY Phils had Bachs by 1935.

ed

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

The picture says "eight out of nine" so, there is one non Conn in there.
_________________
Joe Spitzer
Monroe Ct.

miltinlv · New Member Joined: 20 Mar 2018 Posts: 1

Nathan Prager and Harry Glanz were cousins and grew up playing trumpet together. Their tone was enough of a match to impress Toscanini. I would expect that they played similar, if not the same, model horn.

dem · Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:56 pm Post subject:

The picture of Prager's horn does not have the brace between the 3rd valve slide and the leadpipe entry to the 3rd valve. So, not a Conn?

dr_trumpet · Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:22 pm Post subject:

Prager there from 1929. Vacchiano came in 1934. Glantz left in 1942. That narrows it down top 1934-1936.
_________________
Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music

dfgordon · Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:19 pm Post subject:

While it is possible that Pragerâ€™s horn is a Bach, it is perhaps more likely that it is a French Besson. These instruments were the most common in orchestras at the time and were the basis for the designs of Bach, Benge and many other instrument makers.