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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2595
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:25 am Post subject: How much conscious thought in your mp placement and setup? |
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Do you just sort of put it up, get a general feel of being "in the slot/pocket" and go or are you highly conscious of whatever manipulations you need to get the mp to seat, lip alignment with the teeth, teeth opening, horn angle, pressure, muscular tension around your embouchure etc.?
Do you have a particular series of steps you consciously go through? _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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brassmusician Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2016 Posts: 273
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:37 am Post subject: |
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Zero steps or manipulations for me. I would think this is the case for most players, unless they are going through an embouchure change. Could be wrong though. _________________ Cannonball 789RL
Yamaha 635ST
Yamaha 16C4
Wick 2BFL |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2662 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:32 am Post subject: |
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Really, it depends. Warming up, I think one needs to be conscious of setting up to the best possible sound and response. Thinking is critical here.
BUT, manipulating? My take is to develop the most natural setup you can. I need to push my jaw forward a little, but that's it.
Once you are up and running, well, think a little for sure, but in a performance, I am concentrating on the music, not my chops, which I trust I had setup to work as well as they can. If I am practicing, then it's a slightly different mindset - checking on what I am doing.
Hope that helps.
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:01 am Post subject: |
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On the lips and away I go, though on the rare occasion I do make a slight correction. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1466 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:36 am Post subject: Re: How much conscious thought in your mp placement and setu |
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Robert P wrote: | Do you just sort of put it up, get a general feel of being "in the slot/pocket" and go or are you highly conscious of whatever manipulations you need to get the mp to seat, lip alignment with the teeth, teeth opening, horn angle, pressure, muscular tension around your embouchure etc.?
Do you have a particular series of steps you consciously go through? |
Lately I´ve become aware that a bit more top lip (=mpc a tiny bit higher) gives me much better control, better sound, better high register etc so presently I do consider the placement. Probably this will turn into an unconsciously performed routine. Same thing goes for tongue movement - position related to playing in the high register.
Since I began with the BE I´ve become much more aware of the state of my embouchure. _________________ Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:20 am Post subject: |
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I “just sort of put it up”, the only other thing I’m aware of is if I’m using my Olds Recording, I am aware that I might whack myself in the chops because of the “balanced” (valve block closer to the the bell) construction. I actually thought that could be a problem, for me it really hasn’t been.
But I cannot imagine going through this checklist consciously (“.... lip alignment with the teeth, teeth opening, horn angle, pressure, muscular tension around your embouchure etc.? “) every time I play, and I certainly would not tell a student to think about that.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Last edited by Brad361 on Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:56 am Post subject: |
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Blow the embouchure into place. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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Jazzalive Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 457 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:16 am Post subject: |
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This is actually a good question. I find that if I'm doing Colin exercises, mp placement has an effect on my ability to slide through the harmonics. It's a thin line between being able to slide from one partial to the next or to get "locked" into place. Normally when "stuck" I pull the mp off the chops and start again. |
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deleted_user_680e93b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:06 am Post subject: |
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Billy B wrote: | Blow the embouchure into place. |
YES !!
Doesn't take much on my part to agree with this gentleman, since i start each day blowing the lead pipe ala Mr Bill Adam.
When playing everyday, the lips are right where they need to be, i get a nice resonant buzz on the pipe, but i have literally gone a week or more without touching the horn and within 5 or 6 tries on the lead pipe the lips find their way back to where they need to be. Thank you Mr Bill Adam for making this so much easier than it ever was.
regards,
tom |
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kidtwist Veteran Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2013 Posts: 153 Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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In the last couple of years, I've become more conscious of NOT manipulating my chops, at least not after I put the mouthpiece up.
I set my chops in an "M" formation, make sure corners are "set" and just play!! _________________ DSG
WCU '03
Selmer K-Mod-24B-LT
King Silver Flair - 1960s Vintage
Carolbrass CTR-4440L-YST-Bb-S
Carolbrass CTR-4000H-YSS-C
Kanstul 1523
Yamaha 631 Flugel
Bach 3C, 10C, & Warburton 5 Mouthpieces |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 832 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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I warm up using a Bill Adam set of long tones that allows me to find my “ sweet spot” and dial it in. . When playing on a larger mouthpiece, I find that I can move my chops around a lot with the same results because there is so much room.
Not so with a shallower piece. _________________ Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana Resonance LT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2319 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:17 am Post subject: |
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My general approach is to try to be conscience of every detail in my "warm-up" "daily routine".. at the beginning I'm trying to check everything-making sure I'm not slipping into bad habits or losing my place. Which includes mouthpiece placement, posture, hand position, etc... then as I move into practice or into performing, the concentration moves onto other things. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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kxk558 New Member
Joined: 26 Sep 2017 Posts: 5
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:33 am Post subject: |
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I usually just try and make sure I'm not playing on the "red" of the lip. Making sure the lip is vibrating freely and can respond at any dynamic and range. Some days I spend more time on the "physical" aspect of my playing depending on how I feel but usually just in my fundamentals routine. Sometimes physical difficulties could be fix with musical decision and vica versa. |
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Coolcol123 New Member
Joined: 26 May 2017 Posts: 5
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:16 am Post subject: |
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I recently made a mouthpiece placement / embouchure change, so I'm very conscious of it... placing it naturally is what led me to a very one-sided set-up... I use a mirror and also lots of recording on my iphone... not an issue for everyone I'm sure |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:57 am Post subject: |
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I put the horn up and play, and I don't think about it. I don't know if that's good or bad, but that's my approach, and what I've been doing for most of the 36 years I've been on the horn. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9003 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:28 am Post subject: |
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trickg wrote: | I put the horn up and play, and I don't think about it. I don't know if that's good or bad, but that's my approach, and what I've been doing for most of the 36 years I've been on the horn. |
Same here.
My slightly receding jaw and V-shaped two front teeth sort of make my mpc settle into what's most comfortable. I have lately been bringing my jaw a little more forward to compensate but basically, it just settles where it will. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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rufflicks Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2011 Posts: 641 Location: Mesa AZ
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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To make playing become as second nature as possible the mechanics should be something that happens not something we think about. It is the feeling of norman/correct that should occur. This feeling should become second nature like closing your eyes and touching your ears or nose. If we are bound by ritual or arduous process our playing will be less natural.
Best, Jon _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/Rufftips
Remember this is supposed to be fun. |
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chuck in ny Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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i use a small series of steps to get the mouthpiece into position, first of which is jaw comes slightly forward, then getting to the lips grabbing or contacting the mouthpiece. same routine of conscious adjustments each time to achieve the same feel and position. |
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dershem Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1887 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Not as much as there was 40 years ago. After a while, it's pretty much automatic - you know what works. |
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