Learning in concert pitch

[sioul]

Hello to all trumpet players !

I am just beginning to learn the Bb trumpet and I am asking myself if I should stick to the Bb fingering or prefer to switch to concert pitch fingering (where a written C is heard as a Concert C and played 1-3 )

I am a bass player for several years in Jazz and this will remain my main instrument. I am accustomated to name of the notes and their corresponding sound in concert pitch. I read from lead sheets (real book)

I do not want to play a C trumpet.

I understand that he benefit of transposition is to be able to switch between instrument of the same family, but I will only play Bb Trumpet.

I am 54 and do not plan to play written trumpet pieces nor play in big band..

I understand that I could learn to transpose while reading but their will stiil be a mismatch between sound and name of note.

Professionnal musicians in my environment told me that I should move to concert pitch to avoid to "break my ears"

What would be your advice ,? stick to standard or switch to concert fingering ?
Thank you very much !

[trickg]

So are you basically saying that you'll learn fingerings offset by a step?

It sounds convoluted to me, but I suppose it depends on what you want to do. If you ever want to play in an ensemble and have music written for trumpet, where will that leave you if you decide to offset your fingerings by a full step and that's how you read and play music?

On the other hand, if you are predominately a jazz player and everything you read will be from lead sheets, real and fake books, it might actually help you. Ultimately, you will still be playing the correct fingerings and pitches regardless of how your mind processes it.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[Turkle]

It's an interesting question.

I think that ensemble musicians have to be able to "code-switch," so I think about a C when I'm playing but I have to be able to call it a Bb when I'm talking about that note with the piano/bass, etc. You pretty much have to be able to do both. Plus, as an improvising musician, you have to be able to read lead sheets and chord changes in C anyway and transpose on the fly.

So with that in mind, my tentative thought is that there's nothing wrong with learning all the note names in concert pitch, but you might have difficulty talking with other trumpet players, and you will have to learn to transpose if anyone hands you a chart written for Bb trumpet.
_________________
Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

Just logistically I think it would be very hard to do. All the method books, scale books, etc. are written for Bb trumpet. Here are some thoughts:
1. Just play a C trumpet (at least one person here decided he liked C more than Bb)?
2. You're already moving bass to treble, so I don't your ears will break. Most of us move between instruments and clefs and keys and there's no ear-breaking
3. Maybe find a teacher and see what they say?

To me it would be a real hassle to essentially transpose everything from the start. Maybe it would be great practice, but it seems like an unnecessary and frustration-inducing step for someone new to trumpet. You're going to want to use fingering guides in those method books and you're not going to want to transpose everything.

[kehaulani]

Right, if you're only going to read out of C lead sheets, why no? But if you ever plan to play in a group where the trumpet parts are written for Bb horn, you'll have trouble.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[khedger]

[cjl]

What you are saying is how tuba and bass clef euphonium players approach playing their concert pitch parts using a Bb instrument - C is 13, D is 12, etc.

Knowing what fingering produces what concert pitch with what particular keyed instrument you are playing at the time is another way to look at transposition in general.

Treble clef tuba and baritone parts are transposed Bb parts, like trumpet, perhaps for helping trumpet players who switched.

It would be better if students understood early on the difference between an instrument’s pitch related to concert pitch. It sounds to me like you do so you should have no problems.

— Joe

[JoseLindE4]

Low brass players do it just fine without any problems. If you want to deal with any written trumpet literature at all, it will be a pain unless your transposition chops are ready. If you can transpose, you might as well learn the trumpet way. That way you can communicate easily with other trumpeters.

It's a bit of a quirk of history why trumpeters call the lowest open note C while low brass players call it by the concert pitch of Bb. If you were designing a system from scratch, you'd do it the low brass way, but there are hundreds of years of trumpet history to deal with.

[nieuwguyski]

[lmaraya]

I would ask Brad Goode, he also plays bass.

[khedger]

I've thought about this issue on and off for years. I have contemplated changing over the years and just thinking of the note that I think of as 'c' as being 'Bb'. One thing I've realized is, that doing this after 50 some years of playing, is NOT trivial. 'First and third valve is d' is pretty hard wired into my brain at this point and making this switch would be a real brain twister, though it might actually be good for me. It's an interesting idea. I've always HATED the fact that the trumpet is a 'Bb' transposing instrument and always wondered why we couldn't just call one and three 'C'.

[RandyTX]

[JoseLindE4]

[khedger]

[Brad361]

[Crazy Finn]

[khedger]

[Crazy Finn]

[JoseLindE4]

[khedger]