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Nervous quiver



 
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 5:54 am    Post subject: Nervous quiver Reply with quote

I've been playing for years, 25 years USAF Bands, and more. I'm now 58, performing, teaching, and practicing a lot. A strong player, with a solid understanding of what I can do, and fundamentally secure base.

In the last year or two I've had a couple of instances, solo moments, when playing slow lyrical passeges (not technical/fast passages), where my nerves have gotten the best of me and my lower lip will get the quivers. Enough so, that it can be heard.

I don't think it's a strength or endurance issue and seems to only pop up in those moments where i'm playing easy smooth passages. Which have always been a strength; with a big warm sound.. I can play pretty.

I'm wondering if anyone else has had similar things pop up and how you dealt with them.??
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear about that. I had something like that happen to me about 2-1/2 years ago. I thought it must be nerves, though that seemed weird, because I've been playing for decades and have never had performance anxiety cause this quivering thing.

Turned out it was fatigue. That was weird too, because I didn't feel tired. I felt strong with my playing, but then the quivering would kick in.

I had significantly increased the amount of playing I was doing, and kept going at the higher level for a while. I've done this before at times in my past, without trouble. Seemed like everything was fine, but eventually it produced this problem. Kinda snuck up on me suddenly, which made it more difficult to diagnose.

I asked for help from several teachers. They had helpful suggestions but weren't able to nail down a solution. Eventually I found Lucinda Lewis, and her rehab program got me straightened out and back on track. Now I no longer have this problem, though I'm careful not to overdo it, and I give myself more time for rest and recovery than I used to.

I don't know if my experience is what you're going through, but maybe there's something here that might be helpful. Good luck.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beta Blockers (e.g. Propranolol) deal with this directly. They block the adrenaline receptors in the heart and prevent the overstimulaization caused by nervousness. However, too much and you will feel very weak.

Beta Blockers are not directly psychoactive so they will not help with "headspace". The best psychoactive anxiety relievers are Benzodiazepines such as Alprazolam ("Xanax") and Clonazepam ("Klonopin"). These will relieve mind AND body. As with all drugs, dosage is crucial.
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underdog
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:11 am    Post subject: nervous quiver Reply with quote

zaferis. As a player that plays nonstop for weeks and months at a time day in and day out, I would recommend getting with an "Adam" player that is very relaxed in their playing. I would not talk or analyze the situation. I would think only on: A relaxed breath that is dictated by the music. I would play along with recordings of good players, and I would not tighten up corners or anything manually. I would only play with muscles engaged because of the air moving forward. Any extra tightening may exacerbate the problem. I'm not saying to puff your cheeks, but I am saying stay relaxed and think ONLY about the breath and singing the music in your head as you play. That is all that should be going through your head now. I know that this is fairly matter a fact advice, so look me up and feel free to contact me if you'd like.
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies.. pretty much what I was looking for..

as a follow up, this is what happend this week..

Had a rehearsal, for an upcoming performance, of Curnow's "Concertpiece for Cornet" with a Brass Band, which I have and will be performing. During the rehearsal, a run through, the first section which is fast and techinacal went very well. Then the lyrical middle section was going well until a short cadenza like section (mid to low register) .. the quiver shows up.. then, disappears after a 3 measure rest, then the closing fast technical passage goes well - long note without difficulty. I don't think I felt nervous nor overly tired at that point, just couldn't control the shake.

Now, I think it's getting in my head... I perform this solo on Sunday. I'm trying to be prepared and well rested..
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PH
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: nervous quiver Reply with quote

underdog wrote:
zaferis. As a player that plays nonstop for weeks and months at a time day in and day out, I would recommend getting with an "Adam" player that is very relaxed in their playing....


Go see Matt Anklan in cincy or Jim Reed in Columbus.
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i went through that. I play a lot, and a lot of hard playing, mixed with brass quintet and the occasional small chamber orchestra type gigs. By a lot, I mean for 4 years i played 7 nights a week lead chair in a big band, then 14 years of three salsa nights in the middle of the week followed by brass quintet weddings on the weekend, corporate gigs, pits, etc.

Basically a lot of hard playing, and all the practicing that oes with it to try to keep sensitivity.

What happened to me was my lower lip skin would feel hard and nt want to buzz. The way it would work is i had t take pressure off my bottom lip to get a vibration. Sometimes the buzz would just stop right in the middle of long tmes with no change of sensation or warning sign of any kind. It only happened soft.
When i would bring the vibration back my bottom lip would quiver. Could do nothing to stop it except stop playing for a few seconds.

I tried every thing and gave everything a real good try since this whole thing lasted about 4 years or more. I tried rest, laying off the horn (not at all successful), adam, stamp, caruso.

Caruso was the only thing that worked right away. And i mean it worked within a few days. Drastic improvement. After things got working again i went to a sanders rim contour on my mouthpieces, which has made dealing with heavy playing much much better. All my life after a hard night of playing, the next morning i could barely play. I'm talking about the kind of hard playing that most players almost never even experience. Like two long salsa gigs on a saturday and then try to play brass quintet on sunday morning for instance.

The sanders rim i wish i had switched to when neil sanders tried to get me to switch several times. He said that by watching me play, he could see trouble up ahead for me, and is rim would avoid it. That was in the 80's and donald bullock and david hickman were using it and sounding great like no other. SHould have listened:)
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: nervous quiver Reply with quote

PH wrote:
underdog wrote:
zaferis. As a player that plays nonstop for weeks and months at a time day in and day out, I would recommend getting with an "Adam" player that is very relaxed in their playing....


Go see Matt Anklan in cincy or Jim Reed in Columbus.


Actually, I just met Matt and think we're booked for another performance together.. I'll chat with him the next time I see him.

Thanks. - Great suggestion
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Comeback
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no way caffeine ingestion could be involved, right?

Jim
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dkwolfe
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstdenis wrote:

Turned out it was fatigue. That was weird too, because I didn't feel tired. I felt strong with my playing, but then the quivering would kick in.


I'll second this, because it happened to me recently. I hadn't been taking care of the fundamentals (playing too much, not practicing enough) and it would kick in as soon as I got above the staff.

I started taking a day off here and there (not more than once a week), concentrating on the things like flow studies/long tones, flexibility exercises, and scales, and the problem went away.

Good Luck,
D
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Nervous quiver Reply with quote

zaferis wrote:
I've been playing for years, 25 years USAF Bands, and more. I'm now 58, performing, teaching, and practicing a lot. A strong player, with a solid understanding of what I can do, and fundamentally secure base.

In the last year or two I've had a couple of instances, solo moments, when playing slow lyrical passeges (not technical/fast passages), where my nerves have gotten the best of me and my lower lip will get the quivers. Enough so, that it can be heard.

If you're suddenly experiencing something you've never experienced before after playing all those years I'd suggest a visit to a doctor to rule out any neurological/neuromuscular issues that could be developing.
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roynj
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first read about this quiver business, I thought it was more likely, or at least possibly, an air thing. For an experienced performer, after a time away, one of the first things to "remember" is air control. Too little breath and the sound may drop off, especially in slower softer dynamic passages. Suggestion is to practice those passages a bit louder. As a soloist, you have the liberty of doing whatever you want with dynamics. Also, I might suggest to go back and practice those Clarke second study etudes, lines 27 to 32. dynamics as written, but slower and more deliberate. This will also help in air/finger control.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not saying you have this but it is something to be aware of.

http://musicians-focal-dystonia.com/trumpet-embouchure-dystonia-recovery-step-1/

Best, Jon
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charles_stuedemann
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

focus on breathing when nervous
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velocraig
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Nervous quiver Reply with quote

Robert P wrote:
If you're suddenly experiencing something you've never experienced before after playing all those years I'd suggest a visit to a doctor to rule out any neurological/neuromuscular issues that could be developing.

Any change in meds? This occurred to me in the past with one of my thyroid meds...
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Jim Galakti
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:59 am    Post subject: Re: Nervous quiver Reply with quote

[quote="zaferis"]I've been playing for years, 25 years USAF Bands, and more. I'm now 58, performing, teaching, and practicing a lot. A strong player, with a solid understanding of what I can do, and fundamentally secure base.

In the last year or two I've had a couple of instances, solo moments, when playing slow lyrical passeges (not technical/fast passages), where my nerves have gotten the best of me and my lower lip will get the quivers. Enough so, that it can be heard.

Think about : why you do Music,
For the people?
For You?
For Music?
To get some nice feelling?
To show that you very cool;)?( this is a gangerous question to selfreflection)

If you get nerves - is normal , but with some question to you self, you can stabilize your inside feelings...
its all about what you think about you and what you do...
If perfections dominate , this is very cool , but not at the concert hall,
The place for perfections is the Practice Room
Dont analyse while you perform )))
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JVL
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello
try eleutheroque (siberian ginseng), that is an adaptogen, so balances nervous system.
Decoction, 1st ingestion of the morning, 3 weeks.
Maybe plus astragale, 70% eleuth. + 30% astragale
hope it'll help

best
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Jim Galakti
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject: Nervious Reply with quote

JVL wrote:
hello
try eleutheroque (siberian ginseng), that is an adaptogen, so balances nervous system.
Decoction, 1st ingestion of the morning, 3 weeks.
Maybe plus astragale, 70% eleuth. + 30% astragale
hope it'll help

best


At sibiria the people drink all arts of “eleutheroque” with (from) 40% - to 96%
And have then nothing about nervous hahaha
Best wishes
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:50 am    Post subject: Re: Nervous quiver Reply with quote

zaferis wrote:
I've been playing for years, 25 years USAF Bands, and more. I'm now 58, performing, teaching, and practicing a lot. A strong player, with a solid understanding of what I can do, and fundamentally secure base.

In the last year or two I've had a couple of instances, solo moments, when playing slow lyrical passeges (not technical/fast passages), where my nerves have gotten the best of me and my lower lip will get the quivers. Enough so, that it can be heard.

I don't think it's a strength or endurance issue and seems to only pop up in those moments where i'm playing easy smooth passages. Which have always been a strength; with a big warm sound.. I can play pretty.

I'm wondering if anyone else has had similar things pop up and how you dealt with them.??



Zaferis! You are obviously a very solid player with an abundance of experience from many highly qualified bands. Pro level in every respect.
Me - I´m a mere amateur although I have played in bands the last 60 years or so. So I see no reason commenting your playing.
Myself, I´ve had my share of nervous moments - only to see them vanish me getting older, finally having taken lessons etc. Symptoms like dry mouth, sound suddenly getting extremely thin ,lips seemingly living their own life you name it, suddenly becoming aware 500 pair of ears are listening and so forth. Lately some quiver in my legs; if I tap the rhythm my right foot sometimes seems to go on "tapping", difficult to stop and rather annoying. I can stop it concentrating on doing so, or simply wrapping the foot around a leg of the chair. Specialist told me: no Parkinson, instead a symptom of advancing age. Things ain´t what the used to be....

So - You write "nerves have gotten the best of me"! This is an assertion!
Do you find just anything in the situation that might bring about some anxiety? Anything at all? Other signs of this alleged nervousness? Like heightened awareness of your heart beat, of the audience, the situation in it self etc. Ever felt like that? To dig somewhat deeper: the songs you played - do they possess some emotional meaning to you? Did you feel some unusual (for you) emotionality? (="zing went the strings of my heart)"
How to deal? Becoming nervous of becoming nervous often tend to generate a loop. Sit down - analyze/structure the situation, try to put yourself in the same situation, close your eyes, visualize the setting, play the same song/passage again, note what pops up and subject it to second thoughts!
Maybe you will get some clues! Might turn out no anxiety after all, just coincidental. Or??
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