| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
_Clarino
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 1087
Location: UK
|
 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:29 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Wow, I must have sounded very patronising! Sorry, we get a lot of students here and I was trying to be helpful.
In that case, I expect you will have a lot of fun playing orchestral music on your C trumpet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MannyLaureano
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 405
Location: Plymouth, Minnesota
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ahem...
Don't think that I didn't notice the appalling lack of enthusiasm over my having attained "veteran" status on TH...
All right, I'll stay on topic.
I bought a copy of John Williams Concerto and as a paean to my British colleagues I'm going to dispense with the C for this one and will learn it on Bb. I've not played it but it looks like fun...didn't get to hear Mike play it so I don't have an acompaniment in my ear. But then, that can be a good thing as I won't have any pre-conceived notions about it.
I wonder, speaking of pre-conceived notions, what the impression of someone who has never, ever heard "Also Sprach Zarathustra" would be after playing it as first trumpet for the fist time. You know? Playing a piece without having any of the legendary stories and worries in ones head or Pictures, for that matter. Is ignorance truly bliss?
Chew on that for a while...I've got some practicing to do...
Cheers,
Manny "the Veteran" Laureano
_________________
Liviu Librescu-1930-2007- Holocaust survivor and hero during VA Tech massacre |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trumpetherald
System Administrator
Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 1494
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Don't think that I didn't notice the appalling lack of enthusiasm over my having attained "veteran" status on TH. |
LOL. I'll be the first to congratulate you!
I went to see Mike premiere the Williams concerto at Severance (although I think he played it at Blossom once before the performance I saw). It was a great piece and Mike played it fantastically well. On C. 
TD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jpreed
Regular Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 37
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mzony,
I am curious about the details of your Bb practice, how it has benifited you. Around December I went back to practicing my Bb and have gained tremendous benfit. Could you elaborate. J.P. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mzony
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002
Posts: 998
Location: Honolulu, HI.
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I can only say, that warming up and practicing fundamentals on my Bb trumpet has helped me all around the horn. I feel that it takes more air to use and also that the instrument is a little more clumsy with articulation. For me to practice on the Bb and make it sound good gives me even more stability on the C. I also found that when I stopped playing my Bb for a while that my sound got smaller. I think keeping the sound of a big open Bb in my head helps me to play with a more resonant sound on my C.
But mostly I found that when I stopped playing Bb most coordination things got a little worse. I wish I could be more clear as to what I was expereincing. Hope this helps.
Mike |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Irving
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 1886
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Vacchiano always made his students play half of their lessons on the Bb. He would never let his students play etudes or exersises on anything but the Bb. Nor would he let his students play any of the orchestral excerpts on Bb. He would either make you use a C or D trumpet for those. I guess that he wasn't a one horn man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sdgtpt
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 770
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Speaking of making 'small' horns sound large.....
I am a young kid and all... but I have been under the impression that you would chose a smaller horn based on two things... a different sound, or to facilitate a technical passage. Are we suggesting that the tonal characteristics of the 'smaller trumpets' to be a 'smaller; more chamber like sound' are in fact, not characteristic at all?
I have been asked to use a smaller trumpet in order to have a more 'chamber quality', 'lightness' to the sound. is that incorrect?
I have been playing on a D trumpet now for a few months and have come to like it really really well. Things that are akwardly written in Bb, is a piece of cake on the D trumpet. Am I a cheater or a wimp for playing 'big horn' excerpts on a long bell D Trumpet??? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazztrpt
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 680
Location: Washington, DC
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
On 2004-07-05 01:31, trmpet1 wrote:
Well that's really obvious after looking at it. I have been really trying to stick to playing my C trumpet a lot just to really start playing it well and I didn't think one second about playing it on Bb. Thanks for being nice!
Much Respect,
Tim
|
Hey man, I know this thread moved off topic a bit, but if you wanted to, you could always just pretend that you're playing a Bb trumpet and still transpose everything up a step on C trumpet. So you technically be playing the C transposition in D. Whatever....I guess it doesn't matter much! Man, those Sachse etudes kill me! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MannyLaureano
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 405
Location: Plymouth, Minnesota
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
sdg,
Not at all! That was exactly the point that Vacchiano made to us: play the lick on the horn that makes it easiest. In his Routines book, he quotes Gustav Heim who said "You could play Brahms' 2nd on a Bb and suffer or you could play it on a D trumpet and enjoy it.". That's why Vacchiano had us play everything in as many keys as possible: so that we were never intimidated by a transposition that maight make life easier. But he had such rich sound, no matter what he played it sounded like him!
Cheers,
Manny Laureano
_________________
Liviu Librescu-1930-2007- Holocaust survivor and hero during VA Tech massacre |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JackD
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 1436
Location: London, England.
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm suprised to hear that Mahler 7 recording was done on a D! I guess it goes to show it's the end result that counts, not what you use to achieve it.
Manny - let us know how the travels with the Bb go. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oxleyk
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 4180
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm opening the crypt on this discussion because it is the only Sachse thread that mentions pedal notes.
In many of the exercises there are low Fs, Es, etc. written. Are these pedal notes meant to be played as written or are they written to force transposing to a higher key so that the notes sound naturally?
Kent |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ed Kennedy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
[/quote]
I don't want to brag but I am pretty good on my B flat.
I think it is time to try the C
When I substitute with the local symphony, they are playing C trumpet. At the very least I should play C to blend.
[/quote]
Not necessarily. I can think of a few major orchestras where the 2nd players played mostly Bb (Cleveland under Szell ahd Phila. under Ormandy). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tpt_Guy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1101
Location: Sacramento, Ca
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| oxleyk wrote: | I'm opening the crypt on this discussion because it is the only Sachse thread that mentions pedal notes.
In many of the exercises there are low Fs, Es, etc. written. Are these pedal notes meant to be played as written or are they written to force transposing to a higher key so that the notes sound naturally?
Kent |
Play them on Bb and transpose them. If you look through the book, you'll note that Bb as a transposition is not listed anywhere. That's the key of instrument to use.
Let's take the second study. It has written Fs below the staff and says "Transpose to: C, D, Eb, E and F". Those are all up from a Bb trumpet. If you pick up your Bb and play it as instructed, and you won't be playing any lower than a Low G.
Study 15 is the same. Study 14 goes down to written E below the staff and says, "Transpose to: Eb and F", a perfect fourth and perfect fifth up on a Bb trumpet, respectively. No pedals.
Study 5 lists Ab, A, C, D, Eb, E and F. Bb is skipped because that's the horn to use. Practicing playing down a major second (what C to Bb is) is handled by playing in Ab on a Bb instrument.
_________________
-Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oxleyk
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 4180
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Tpt_Guy wrote: | | oxleyk wrote: | I'm opening the crypt on this discussion because it is the only Sachse thread that mentions pedal notes.
In many of the exercises there are low Fs, Es, etc. written. Are these pedal notes meant to be played as written or are they written to force transposing to a higher key so that the notes sound naturally?
Kent |
Play them on Bb and transpose them. If you look through the book, you'll note that Bb as a transposition is not listed anywhere. That's the key of instrument to use.
Let's take the second study. It has written Fs below the staff and says "Transpose to: C, D, Eb, E and F". Those are all up from a Bb trumpet. If you pick up your Bb and play it as instructed, and you won't be playing any lower than a Low G.
Study 15 is the same. Study 14 goes down to written E below the staff and says, "Transpose to: Eb and F", a perfect fourth and perfect fifth up on a Bb trumpet, respectively. No pedals.
Study 5 lists Ab, A, C, D, Eb, E and F. Bb is skipped because that's the horn to use. Practicing playing down a major second (what C to Bb is) is handled by playing in Ab on a Bb instrument. |
So the idea is not to play them as written but always transposed? That sounds painful to my amateur hack brain. I'm ok with playing in C but beyond that is foreign country to me.
Thanks |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tpt_Guy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1101
Location: Sacramento, Ca
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| oxleyk wrote: |
So the idea is not to play them as written but always transposed? That sounds painful to my amateur hack brain. I'm ok with playing in C but beyond that is foreign country to me.
Thanks |
You get used to it. Some players use clef transposition. For example, holding a C trumpet you can read Eb and E trumpet parts using bass clef (or French violin clef - both put G on the bottom line). D trumpet parts can be read on Bb the same way.
On Bb, trumpet in A can be read using tenor clef and C trumpet parts using alto clef.
Sounds confusing at first, but you get used to it. If you can already read bass, start with E and Eb on C trumpet and D on Bb trumpet. Practice reading the parts that way and adjusting the key signatures accordingly. This will help you become confident that you can transpose and make it easier to branch out to other transpositions.
There is a table at the beginning of the Bordogni book that shows how to use F and C clefs to transpose.
_________________
-Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
