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Olds L-12 Flugelhorn Valve Guides



 
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Olds L-12 Flugelhorn Valve Guides Reply with quote

I recently purchased a 1969 Olds L-12 Flugelhorn. It's a great horn, original lacquer is almost 100%, valve compression is fantastic. It was a back-up horn with a single owner, so it's in very good condition. I like everything about the horn ... except the valve guides.

The L-12 Flugelhorn, so I'm told, is known to have noisy valves. It's a "clicking" sound. As best as I can tell, circular movement of the metal valve guides is the cause.

It's not the worst thing in the world. I'm the one who hears it, not the audience. But I find it distracting at times. I don't think that new metal valve guides will fix the problem, since the existing guides look to be in good shape, and the problem appears to be the metal-on-metal clicking.

If I put some lube in the valve guide tracks (inside the valve casings), this will temporarily minimize the clicking noise.

So I'm looking for other suggestions.
- Could putting nail polish on the valve guides help?
- Do plastic guides exist for the L-12 (I doubt it, but thought I'd ask)?
- Keep going with the extra lube, and just deal with it?
- Any other ideas (other than sell the horn)?

Thanks!
Mike
(I also posted this on TrumpetMaster.)





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Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
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daniel76309
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Joined: 15 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those brass guides (tacquets?) look just like the ones on my old Besson euphonium. I replaced them using something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NYLON-SCREW-TO-REPLACE-METAL-VALVE-GUIDES/272816165992?epid=2194901848&hash=item3f851c5468:g:j90AAMXQsmFRcrCT

You basically unscrew the metal guide, insert the screw, and then trim/file it to size. They make the valves quiet, and they feel smoother. However, these are not going to be as sturdy as the metal guides were--not sure if I would do it again.
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TrumpetMD
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daniel76309 wrote:
Those brass guides (tacquets?) look just like the ones on my old Besson euphonium. I replaced them using something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NYLON-SCREW-TO-REPLACE-METAL-VALVE-GUIDES/272816165992?epid=2194901848&hash=item3f851c5468:g:j90AAMXQsmFRcrCT

You basically unscrew the metal guide, insert the screw, and then trim/file it to size. They make the valves quiet, and they feel smoother. However, these are not going to be as sturdy as the metal guides were--not sure if I would do it again.

This might be exactly what I need.

Thanks for the info!

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
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TrumpetMD
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2410
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I emailed the eBay seller, to find out the size of their plastic guides.

Another solution I found was use a simple nylon hex cap screw, and shave down the head to the right size. I'd have to find one with the correct thread size.

Back to my original post, I wonder if putting some clear nail polish on the metal guides would cushion them enough? I also wonder what, if any harm there might be in trying this.

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll guess that the thread size on those is tiny, so if you decide to make your own from a nylon bolt, be careful not to break it off while tightening it (if you can even find one that small). I wonder if you could just fashion some plastic ones and glue them to the valve in place of the brass ones?
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're right Dale. The people I found using nylon screws did this on euphoniums and tubas. On the flugelhorn, the screw might need to be too small to make this practical, unless you get a tech to make the hole larger.

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
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trumpetgeekIII
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Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll buy the horn from you. But please don't tear it up..
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpetgeekIII wrote:
I'll buy the horn from you. But please don't tear it up..

Thanks trumpetgeekIII.

After considering the options, I'm not considering nylon guides. The screw hole is just too small, and I don't want to create a larger hole. For me, it's just not worth the risk.

Applying valve oil (Hetman #3) in the valve guide grooves works pretty well. Heavy lube with Hetman #8 works better, but tends to slow down the valves a bit, if you're not careful. But neither option is perfect.

I still might try a little nail polish on the valve guides, if I can get some input on what potential problems this could create.

If I decide to sell the horn, I'll let you know.

Thanks for everyone who provided input.
Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
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Dale Proctor
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Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 9343
Location: Heart of Dixie

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I became immune to the slight valve clicking on my L-12 from playing this clanky old horn in a Civil War band for so many years...


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TrumpetMD
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2410
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an update on my original post.

I tried a little clear nail polish on the valve guides a couple days ago. So far, this seems to work the best, and pretty much eliminated all of the metal-on-metal clicks from the valve guides. FYI, anything more than a thin coat was too much, and made the valves sluggish. Also, any excess nail polish on the guides was shaved off by the guide tracks, requiring me to swab out one of the casings.

So while this approach eliminated all of the noise, it had the potential to be labor-intensive if not done correctly. If it doesn't work out, I'll go back to putting some extra Hetman #3 down the valve guide tracks.

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
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View user's profile Send private message
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