Brown Scale On Valve Cylinder

Tony Scodwell · Heavyweight Member Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1961

You may be able to have the valves nickel plated in your town but you will need to hone both the cylinders and valves prior to lapping them in. Most brass instrument makers use this procedure to get the proper fit and Sunnen seems to be the favored hone in use. With re-plating them in nickel silver it will not be uniform top to bottom hence the honing. I agree your horn doesn't warrant the cost of sending it out to a specialist and with your skills the valves should be as close to ideal as new. Grinding after plating is a rather crude way to go about this operation.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com

Abraxas · Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 5:11 pm Post subject:

I've got a cylindrical grinding attachment for my lathe, but there isn't, to my recollection, good spots to sink lathe centers into on either end of the pistons such that they will turn true in the first place. I just finished watching a lovely video on youtube on lapping and it sure looks to be a better way to go and it is self centering.

Be nice if there were affordable means to fix those valves on the cheaper horns. I think I paid about $40 USD + shipping for the Special and thought I was getting a great deal, until the valves started hanging up.

I have a diploma in electronics and a couple years of University chemistry also. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for plating. I certainly have the equipment.

My plan is to lap the pistons first until they are uniform diameter, top to bottom....they aren't bad now, but I get up to 0.0005 variance and I want to start with a perfect finish, which I don't have.

There are some good flash plating with copper DIY instructables online and I'll follow with nickel. I'll then lap the cylinders. I will pick up a junker first to practice on as the Special is back somewhat to playable, but untrustworthy, condition.

Here's the lapping video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2SeLcbcYkE

Brad361 · Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 6:06 am Post subject:

Abraxas · Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 9:41 am Post subject:

Fair enough Brad, but I'm a tinkerer too and I also have to consider , if I can do it successfully to one, I can do it to many, which would have selfish benefits. There are probably hundreds of thousands of horns out there that fall into that grey zone of worth repairing but not at several multiples of their available purchase price.

I also tend to anthropomorphize (project human traits onto animals and inanimate things). I figure if there were these great skilled workers that put their life into making these great horns, it's my duty to try and keep them out of the scrap heap. It's sort of like preserving a legacy and paying tribute to them. Their spirit inhabits their horns and it would an insult to destroy one. I think a lot of people who collect antiquities are like that.

It's a hobby too.

Brad361 · Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 3:03 pm Post subject:

Dennis78 · Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 4:44 pm Post subject:

I’ve bought 2 trumpets, 2 cornets and a trombone from the goodwill online auction site and all were very playable
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a few different ones

Abraxas · Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 5:22 pm Post subject:

I've had the opposite experience. The last flute was not even the advertised brand. Someone looked at the name on the case instead of the instrument and put that in the ad. Along with the Ambassador that someone put mismatched valves in. I only got one good horn, a Reynolds trumpet, out of about 6. At least with Feebay, they are returnable.

Some people are bidding big money on pretty high end Martins et al and you never get to hear how that worked out for them.

I don't know what it is with Goodwill, here in Canada or in the USA, but they seem to think they are excused from decency and the laws of merchandising , no doubt because they are a charity.

There was a local Blessing that I was going to bid on. I went down to where it was stored and they wouldn't let me look at it. I was expected to accept the assessment of the guy in the warehouse, who doesn't play.

Brad361 · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:41 am Post subject:

Like many things, buying from Goodwill is probably hit and miss, sounds like in your case it’s been more miss.

I’ve looked at horns on their site, most of what I saw looked like they were overpriced and not in very good condition, but again, like anything else, YMMV. Buying anything sight unseen without a return policy is a gamble.....hardly a revelation there!😉

Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval

Abraxas · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:33 am Post subject:

Yes. I think the key is to not get in too deep. They do have some, at first glance, stellar horns advertised. Martin Committees ,,, stuff like that and they do draw steep bids. I'd love to own one. Of course the thing is that a Committee is worth about the same as a Bundy, when one is looking at $1000 in repairs on shot valves and red rot. I try and stick with the under $100, modest, but decent, reputation horns, in case I have to eat a loss.

One thing that intrigues me about that site and I did inquire about it, is that some of the write ups obviously were written by knowledgeable people. When they start breaching topics like compression and commenting on the nuances of the horns, I'm wondering if they are selling on consignment, in which case, it would be a scammers paradise, due to the no-returns, no recourse policy. I sent Goodwill an email in that regard and they said that all items were in fact donations. Strange.

Brad361 · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:28 am Post subject:

Abraxas · Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:15 am Post subject:

$550 for lapping tools to do this, exclusive of plating. I could make my own tools in which case this means it goes on my bucket list, which is filed somewhere in my massive "Should" Library. I'll get back with an update in the next millennia. Time to look for another horn and buy smarter this time.