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icos Regular Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2010 Posts: 17
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Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:39 pm Post subject: Vented 3rd valve |
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I mostly play a Chicago Benge. It has a vented 3rd valve, and I really like this feature.
I am thinking of venting the 3rd valve on a 1956 Olds Recording trumpet.
Does anyone know of a reason why this may not be good move on this particular horn?
Thanks,
Sam |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4808
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Uninformed question here, but is there any other reason for vented valves besides making the first and third slides easier to use? I could understand how it might be beneficial to an Olds Recording (I have one) on the third slide trigger; mine works ok, but if you don’t quite “time it” right the valve compression can slow down the spring loaded slide return.
Not a big deal, I have gotten in the habit of pushing back slightly on the ring to help the slide retract, but it would be better (a little) if I didn’t need to. Sort of....kind of....I doubt that it would help me get into the Houston Symphony though....especially using an Olds Recording....😉😉
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Danbassin Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 460 Location: Idyllwild, CA
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Brad361 wrote: | Uninformed question here, but is there any other reason for vented valves besides making the first and third slides easier to use?
Brad |
Hey Brad -
I think the 'benefits' for venting are twofold:
1) One can pre-adjust the slide lengths, avoiding any on-the-fly micro-intonation fluctuations while playing a low C#, or D, or a 1-2 valve combination note that needs attention.
2) The whole air pressure 'pop' thing is avoided, making the horn feel a bit more consistent throughout the valve combinations.
I've owned rotary trumpets which vent the third valve to aid in the use of the 3rd slide trigger, and I've also played some older Monettes that had their 3rd, or 1st and 3rd valves vented. The potential danger of having slides go the way of gravity - either in the case, on a trumpet stand, or in your lap is easily mitigated by a length of elastic band, as mentioned above.
Interestingly, I don't know of Dave venting valves on many recent horns, but then again I've never asked him to make me a horn with this modification. My gut tells me that this was a modification trend which was at one point in the recent past more popular than it is now. I take it to be a feature of an instrument that is neither a selling point nor a value-added modification. With the exception of rotary trumpets with triggers, I have never really felt any benefit with venting.
Happy practicing,
-DB _________________ Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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trumpet_cop Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2013 Posts: 242
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:14 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Danbassin"][quote="Brad361"]Uninformed question here, but is there any other reason for vented valves besides making the first and third slides easier to use?
Brad[/quote]
Hey Brad -
I think the 'benefits' for venting are twofold:
1) One can pre-adjust the slide lengths, avoiding any on-the-fly micro-intonation fluctuations while playing a low C#, or D, or a 1-2 valve combination note that needs attention.
2) The whole air pressure 'pop' thing is avoided, making the horn feel a bit more consistent throughout the valve combinations.
I've owned rotary trumpets which vent the third valve to aid in the use of the 3rd slide trigger, and I've also played some older Monettes that had their 3rd, or 1st and 3rd valves vented. The potential danger of having slides go the way of gravity - either in the case, on a trumpet stand, or in your lap is easily mitigated by a length of elastic band, as mentioned above.
-DB[/quote]
Right on! I have always recommended my college students get their 3rd valve vented at least on C.
Anyone know if the rotors can be vented after assembly like pistons can? |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9363 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:06 am Post subject: |
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The Conn 9A Victor cornet I bought a few years ago had all 3 valves vented by a previous owner. That particular style of Conn valve (Connstellation enclosed spring barrel) is prone to bouncing, and these have much less bounce than others I've owned. That makes me think the venting helps that problem, possibly more on valves with close tolerances that would hold a pressure differential. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Flip Oakes Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2002 Posts: 532 Location: Oceanside, CA USA
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: |
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I vented a third valve for customer on his Bb Wild Thing and though he loved it, he said it changed the timbre of the sound only while using the 3rd valve, most noticeable when playing a Harmon mute. I asked him stop by so I could hear what was happening, and sure enough it was changing the timbre of the sound. We replaced the vented third piston with a stock third piston and the sound went back sounding even and the difference in sound was gone. I have no idea as to why, but because of this I would not vent the piston.
Flip Oakes _________________ Flip Oakes “Wild Thing Trumpets”
2559 Mottino Dr.
Oceanside, Ca. 92056-3421
760-643-1501
Delivering the distinctive Wild Thing Sound since 1994 |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 4:04 am Post subject: |
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Flip Oakes wrote: | I vented a third valve for customer on his Bb Wild Thing and though he loved it, he said it changed the timbre of the sound only while using the 3rd valve, most noticeable when playing a Harmon mute. I asked him stop by so I could hear what was happening, and sure enough it was changing the timbre of the sound. We replaced the vented third piston with a stock third piston and the sound went back sounding even and the difference in sound was gone. I have no idea as to why, but because of this I would not vent the piston.
Flip Oakes |
I guess you never know how changing something on one particular horn might have an effect you would not find on another.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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SSmith1226 Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2016 Posts: 104 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 4:29 am Post subject: |
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My Bach Strad, immediately after third valve venting, developed a clicking sound when the vented third valve was used. It was very obvious with a practice mute and also noticeable with a Harmon and cup mute. The vented area was restored to original and no problems since. I know that this is unusual, but never the less a risk. I have a recording of it but can’t figure out how to post it. If any one is interested in hearing it the can contact me at SSmith2226@aol.com _________________ Steve Smith |
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