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abundrefo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2008 Posts: 913 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:43 am Post subject: Differences in light valve oil brands, and Schilke valves |
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Hello,
I was testing a few different bands of light valve oil with my Hoxon Gakki valves trumpet (tight valves, just like Carol Brass). I tested Hetman 1, Ultra Pure Ultra-Light and Yamaha Light.
I'm not sure if you agree, but I noticed that:
- Hetman 1 is the thickest
- Yamaha Light is the thinnest
- Ultra Pure Ultra-Light is right in the middle
I'm using Ultra Pure Ultra-Light with this particular horn because I like the way the pistons feel and the way the horn plays. Hetman 1 makes it a little bit stuffy and Yamaha Light makes it too airy, making me struggle with "mushy" articulation.
Now I'm about to get a brand new Schilke S32HD.
In your experience, which one will work best with Schilke valves?
Thank you. |
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Lawler Bb Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2002 Posts: 1140 Location: Milwaukee, WI
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2327 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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I've tried several brands with my Schilke Eb Cornet.. there is something about Ultra-Pure-Light that I like the best. Silky-ness and seems to last the longest. I think Blue Juice was faster but doesn't last long for me - speed declines noticably.
I don't know if I noticed any difference in play, other than the valves are consistent thus I don't think about them. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: | I've tried several brands with my Schilke Eb Cornet.. there is something about Ultra-Pure-Light that I like the best. Silky-ness and seems to last the longest. I think Blue Juice was faster but doesn't last long for me - speed declines noticably.
I don't know if I noticed any difference in play, other than the valves are consistent thus I don't think about them. |
I found that, after a few applications, the Ultra-Pure Light got faster. I agree that it seemed slower than I hoped when I first used it. So, I followed Ken's instructions and did what they demonstrate, almost "over oiling" the valve. I found that once I did that, they were much faster, and the oil lasted longer.
I appreciate your post!
AL _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 4:30 am Post subject: Re: Differences in light valve oil brands, and Schilke valve |
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abundrefo wrote: | .......
I'm using Ultra Pure Ultra-Light with this particular horn because I like the way the pistons feel and the way the horn plays. Hetman 1 makes it a little bit stuffy and Yamaha Light makes it too airy, making me struggle with "mushy" articulation.
....... |
Not necessarily disputing your experience, but I’ve never found any oil to make a horn “stuffy”, make a horn “airy” or affect articulation.
Again, that might be your experience, but it doesn’t make sense to me.
Different oils absolutely will vary in how well they work on different horns with different players body chemistry, but I’ve never seen oil affect the things you mentioned.....unless I’m misunderstanding something here.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Differences in light valve oil brands, and Schilke valve |
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Brad361 wrote: | abundrefo wrote: | .......
I'm using Ultra Pure Ultra-Light with this particular horn because I like the way the pistons feel and the way the horn plays. Hetman 1 makes it a little bit stuffy and Yamaha Light makes it too airy, making me struggle with "mushy" articulation.
....... |
Not necessarily disputing your experience, but I’ve never found any oil to make a horn “stuffy”, make a horn “airy” or affect articulation.
Again, that might be your experience, but it doesn’t make sense to me.
Different oils absolutely will vary in how well they work on different horns with different players body chemistry, but I’ve never seen oil affect the things you mentioned.....unless I’m misunderstanding something here.
Brad |
Only thing that might create this effect is if the valves are noticably slower to the point the horn feels stuffier because they are not fully aligning on the up stroke. And that would be instantaneous...depending upon how slow the valves are....
That was the only way I could "maybe" see it happening, but I am with you, not sure one could perceive it.
AL _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Differences in light valve oil brands, and Schilke valve |
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dr_trumpet wrote: | Brad361 wrote: | abundrefo wrote: | .......
I'm using Ultra Pure Ultra-Light with this particular horn because I like the way the pistons feel and the way the horn plays. Hetman 1 makes it a little bit stuffy and Yamaha Light makes it too airy, making me struggle with "mushy" articulation.
....... |
Not necessarily disputing your experience, but I’ve never found any oil to make a horn “stuffy”, make a horn “airy” or affect articulation.
Again, that might be your experience, but it doesn’t make sense to me.
Different oils absolutely will vary in how well they work on different horns with different players body chemistry, but I’ve never seen oil affect the things you mentioned.....unless I’m misunderstanding something here.
Brad |
Only thing that might create this effect is if the valves are noticably slower to the point the horn feels stuffier because they are not fully aligning on the up stroke. And that would be instantaneous...depending upon how slow the valves are....
That was the only way I could "maybe" see it happening, but I am with you, not sure one could perceive it.
AL |
That’s true, I guess that could create a major valve misalignment.
But if I had a horn with valves THAT sluggish I believe I would be looking at causes other than oil.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Differences in light valve oil brands, and Schilke valve |
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Brad361 wrote: | dr_trumpet wrote: | Brad361 wrote: | abundrefo wrote: | .......
I'm using Ultra Pure Ultra-Light with this particular horn because I like the way the pistons feel and the way the horn plays. Hetman 1 makes it a little bit stuffy and Yamaha Light makes it too airy, making me struggle with "mushy" articulation.
....... |
Not necessarily disputing your experience, but I’ve never found any oil to make a horn “stuffy”, make a horn “airy” or affect articulation.
Again, that might be your experience, but it doesn’t make sense to me.
Different oils absolutely will vary in how well they work on different horns with different players body chemistry, but I’ve never seen oil affect the things you mentioned.....unless I’m misunderstanding something here.
Brad |
Only thing that might create this effect is if the valves are noticably slower to the point the horn feels stuffier because they are not fully aligning on the up stroke. And that would be instantaneous...depending upon how slow the valves are....
That was the only way I could "maybe" see it happening, but I am with you, not sure one could perceive it.
AL |
That’s true, I guess that could create a major valve misalignment.
But if I had a horn with valves THAT sluggish I believe I would be looking at causes other than oil.
Brad |
Absolutely agreed, my friend! I was just trying to come up with some way that it might work, but you are right....that would be one heck of a hang!
AL _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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abundrefo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2008 Posts: 913 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Differences in light valve oil brands, and Schilke valve |
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Brad361 wrote: | abundrefo wrote: | .......
I'm using Ultra Pure Ultra-Light with this particular horn because I like the way the pistons feel and the way the horn plays. Hetman 1 makes it a little bit stuffy and Yamaha Light makes it too airy, making me struggle with "mushy" articulation.
....... |
Not necessarily disputing your experience, but I’ve never found any oil to make a horn “stuffy”, make a horn “airy” or affect articulation.
Again, that might be your experience, but it doesn’t make sense to me.
Different oils absolutely will vary in how well they work on different horns with different players body chemistry, but I’ve never seen oil affect the things you mentioned.....unless I’m misunderstanding something here.
Brad |
This is very, very subtle.
But, just to give you an extreme example, imagine what would happen if you put Hetman 3 on a brand new 8310Z and Yamaha Light oil on a 50+ years old Olds trumpet. That's what I mean. |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: Differences in light valve oil brands, and Schilke valve |
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abundrefo wrote: | Hello,
I was testing a few different bands of light valve oil with my Hoxon Gakki valves trumpet (tight valves, just like Carol Brass). I tested Hetman 1, Ultra Pure Ultra-Light and Yamaha Light.
I'm not sure if you agree, but I noticed that:
- Hetman 1 is the thickest
- Yamaha Light is the thinnest
- Ultra Pure Ultra-Light is right in the middle
I'm using Ultra Pure Ultra-Light with this particular horn because I like the way the pistons feel and the way the horn plays. Hetman 1 makes it a little bit stuffy and Yamaha Light makes it too airy, making me struggle with "mushy" articulation.
Now I'm about to get a brand new Schilke S32HD.
In your experience, which one will work best with Schilke valves?
Thank you. |
Hi abundrefo
I take it that you were definitely using Yamaha Light (with the turquoise label) rather than the Super Light (with the white label).
i.e. https://www.alangregory.co.uk/music/Yamaha_Light_Valve_Oil.html#SID=509
rather than:
https://www.alangregory.co.uk/music/Yamaha_Super_Light_Valve_Oil.html#SID=509
A UK retailer (not the one I have provided the links from) sent me the Super Light by mistake, and I found it to be far too thin for my Yamaha Xeno trumpet and cornets.
All the best
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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vandenplass Regular Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2014 Posts: 28 Location: canada
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Differences in light valve oil brands, and Schilke valve |
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the on l'y good product with Scqhilke are Warburton
I was testing a few different bands of light valve oil with my Hoxon Gakki valves trumpet (tight valves, just like Carol Brass). I tested Hetman 1, Ultra Pure Ultra-Light and Yamaha Light.
I'm not sure if you agree, but I noticed that:
- Hetman 1 is the thickest
- Yamaha Light is the thinnest
- Ultra Pure Ultra-Light is right in the middle
I'm using Ultra Pure Ultra-Light with this particular horn because I like the way the pistons feel and the way the horn plays. Hetman 1 makes it a little bit stuffy and Yamaha Light makes it too airy, making me struggle with "mushy" articulation.
Now I'm about to get a brand new Schilke S32HD.
In your experience, which one will work best with Schilke valves?
Thank you.[/quote] _________________ Mendez, Nakariakov , Balsom and Helseth are my best. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:57 am Post subject: |
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I used a thick valve oil - Tech Oil - on my Yamaha for several years before finding a slightly lighter solution.
While the valve response was slower (smooth, but slower) I never noticed any difference in blow or response in playing. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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