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Video: Middle Aged Amatuer Lead Player w/Range but No Style


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EdMann
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got it, but I might think you'd have more expert, or at least varied commentary on jazz phrasing, swing feel, in the Jazz forum. That's where the swingers live!

good luck!

ed
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oljackboy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting thread. I really think it would help you to play a section part in a big band with a really advanced lead player. Just as the drummer and bass player in a big band lay down the time, the effective lead trumpet player literally leads the ensemble in an interpretation of the time. There are lead players who really interpret the time freely, and those who are a little less outrageous about it.
It isn't always easy to find a chair in a big band with this kind of lead player. but absolutely worth the effort.
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This reads like a mental block brought on by over-expectations, self-pressure and flagellation, and over-analysis. Can you pass on the performance solos for now? Maybe you should listen to some recordings, work out some solos by woodshedding slooowly (well under tempo) through them, focusing on hearing in your mind what you want to play, maybe writing them out, and generally lower the pressure level on yourself. If you need to solo on the gig, just do some more basic riffs over the changes, simplify and relax.

It seems like you're in one of those nasty endless loops of trying to force things and killing yourself when it doesn't fall into place so you try harder and get more stressed out so things fall apart even more...

Play some Arbans.
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Rod Haney
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When my hi school band director wanted to teach us swing and big band rhythm for our very good stage band he set us down and sent us home with Woody Herman recordings. He played sax with them and it was the way he wanted us to play. I already loved Duke, and Count and Kenton, but when I got down with the Herman band I began to pick up the feel it transferrred to other music. We had a lot of Herman arrangements and we always started by listening to what he did then tried to groove along with it. Some of the players hit it pretty well, some couldn’t cut the notes, and we certainly couldn’t play all we saw (some were copies of the original charts). We saw at least 5 charts that were beyond any player we had at the time. I had one lead chart I didn’t even know what the notes were because I’d never seen anything written so hi. BUT seeing the notes then hearing them played and working toward it helped a lot. If you want to learn to swing hard listen to Woody and Buddy and if you can find some lead charts for their stuff play along. Buddy Rich also knew how.
My $.02
Rod
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jazz_trpt
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rod Haney wrote:
When my hi school band director wanted to teach us swing and big band rhythm for our very good stage band he set us down and sent us home with Woody Herman recordings.


I listened to Woody 1963/Encore and 1964 ALOT when I was in high school. That was a helluva band.

My band director in HS sent a lot of music home with us, from Maynard to Basie to Woody...having that stuff to play along with was like taking lessons from the masters.
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INTJ
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Herman rev2 wrote:
This reads like a mental block brought on by over-expectations, self-pressure and flagellation, and over-analysis. Can you pass on the performance solos for now? Maybe you should listen to some recordings, work out some solos by woodshedding slooowly (well under tempo) through them, focusing on hearing in your mind what you want to play, maybe writing them out, and generally lower the pressure level on yourself. If you need to solo on the gig, just do some more basic riffs over the changes, simplify and relax.

It seems like you're in one of those nasty endless loops of trying to force things and killing yourself when it doesn't fall into place so you try harder and get more stressed out so things fall apart even more...

Play some Arbans.


This is where things go sideways when trying to analyze an INTJ. It is my analysis that has created the understanding that my lead style is about half what it should be. It is also my research and analysis that has given me a solution.

Also, an INTJ is brutally honest about everything, especially about themselves. To an INTJ there is NOTHING worse than thinking they are better than they really are. For some that may be self-flaggation, but not me. It just an honest recognition of what works and what doesn’t. Things do not have value unless they work properly. The end state of that all that is my jazz band won’t get any better until get better, so it’s MY fault the band is at the level it is.

Yesterday I discovered how to make the style I want. I have a method to lock in time. I will post some video later.

So far I have been through three levels of the application of swing style.

1. Playing uneven eights with a triplet feel but chopping everything up. That isn’t swinging

2. Playing uneven eights with a triplet feel and moving to more of a 60/40
for fast swing, carrying the air/no space between connected notes, back-tonguing, making short notes short/fat. That swings a little and is where I have been for a long time.

3. All the above plus smoothing out the tonguing so lines are less clunky, accenting off beats—some more than others, and developing rock solid sense of time. See Mike Sailor’s video on Page 2 of this thread for an example.

I want to sincerely that all who participated in this thread. You all have helped me think and analyze my way to a solution.
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Wild Things
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not know what "INTJ" means but you're saying this is a personality disorder? Welcome to trumpet players. In any event I'd best stay out of this one, good luck, hope you manage to achieve your goals! - Don
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INTJ
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some would call it is personality disorder. The Myers Briggs afficianados call it an oddly developed type.
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Wild Things
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mm55
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your belief system requires you to live in a four-letter box that's limiting you, maybe a new belief system without the limiting box would be useful.
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