Help Needed From Vintage Conn Cornet Players

[1957Tim]

Hi guys,

I need your expertise on the short shank mouthpiece issue for the pre-1958 Conn cornets, let me explain. I recently purchased a 1952 Conn 12A cornet, however it did not come with the original Conn mouthpiece. According to the Conn Loyalist, Conn mouthpieces such as the Conn 4 are long shank if there is a "ridge" halfway down the shank, and short shank if there is no ridge. Also, the long shank mouthpieces have "Conn" and the number of the mouthpiece stamped across the mouthpiece, whereas the short shank mouthpieces have it stamped along the length of the mouthpiece. I have kept an eye on eBay, but have only seen one mouthpiece that was the correct one for this horn, and I failed to get the winning bid.

Mark Curry advertises on his website that any of his mouthpieces can be ordered in the Conn short shank configuration, and specifies that the piece is 2.5” long, and has the correct 60-thousandths/inch taper and correct shank diameter. He also gives credit to Rick Henrickson of NYC and Alan Hancock (UK) for their insightful help and research and also gives this link for additional information. http://www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/ConnArticle34.html.

The link shares this quote by Jim New. “Beware that while modern short shank mouthpieces might be the right length (2½"), they might not be the right taper. I have not had the chance to measure one, but a modern short shank cornet mouthpiece, while better than a long shank cornet mouthpiece, might still not properly fit a pre-1958 Conn cornet.”

Are there other mouthpiece makers whose short shank mouthpiece fits this criteria, or is Mark Curry the only one. I visited with a music store today who was willing to send me a stock short shank mouthpiece, but wasn’t aware of the taper differences for these vintage Conn’s.

I thank you in advance for any insight you might be able to share with me.

-1957Tim

[Dennis78]

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/53587534

Just so happens there’s a short shank included with this one
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a few different ones

[Oncewasaplayer]

Terry Warburton has a vintage cornet shank that works on my Conn New Wonder. I want a very direct take-charge sound for trad jazz so I use the KT backbore in the vintage shank but you will find many options. (The KT is not appropriate for BBB work but sure fun to play elsewhere.)
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Getzen 800DLX cornet
Selmer Sigma trumpet

[malden]

1957Tim,

I have a Curry 3BBC with Conn shank due to arrive this week after quite a long wait, so I will be able to let you know soon.

Jim New's comments ring true to me as I had little luck with the Yamaha short shank mouthpieces. They were stuffy to the point of being unplayable.

However, I did find the Wick Ultra 3C to be very good in both my '31 82A and '40 80A. The original, vintage Conn 4 is great as well, and it gives the horn a very trumpet-like sound.

Cheers

[GordonH]

Although if it is a very old cornet and it has been used for a long time with a modern taper mouthpiece it has likely worn down to that taper. Mine has.
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Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[Richard III]

[Dale Proctor]

I have a couple Stork short-shank cornet mouthpieces that fit my '54 Conn 80A really well. They aren't special shanks, either, just off the shelf mouthpieces. The Wick cornet mouthpieces fit well, too, but are a bit too big and deep for anything but brass band use.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[1957Tim]

Dennis78,

According to the information I got from Conn Loyalist, the middle mouthpiece is a long shank, if it indeed is a Conn mouthpiece. I can’t see the one on the bottom well enough to tell, and I don’t even know if the top one is a Conn piece. Thanks for responding.

Oncewasaplayer,

Thanks for this information. I will keep that in mind.

malden,

Awesome! I hope it matches your expectations. I look forward to hearing how it works for you. I’ve heard others say the Conn 4 was to trumpet like for their taste, so it’s probably best I didn’t find one. I want my cornet to sound like a cornet.

GordonH & Richard

I’ve heard others say that as well. The horn was made in 1952, and I purchased it from the original owner. I have several old short shank mouthpieces that were made by other makers, and they don’t correctly fit the receiver, so I’m hoping this is a good sign. This lovely cornet is currently at Anderson Silver Plating where it is undergoing a valve refit.

Richard, was the Curry short shank a better fit in the horn than the other ones in your collection that you tried?


Dale Proctor,

Thanks for sharing your experiences with me. I know you’re a cornet man Dale, have you ever played the Conn 12A with the copper bell?

I appreciate all of you guys taking the time to share your insight here. When I receive this horn back from Anderson Plating, I hope to figure something out.

Thanks again,

-1957Tim

[steevo]

Very recently, I had Monette make a mouthpiece for my 1948 Conn 80A.

Luckily, I live about six miles away from the Monette shop, and was able to take my cornet to the shop, and have the mouthpiece made for my instrument. I learned that the taper as measured in the receiver was not quite the 60 thousands per inch as has been quoted by other sources. The team at Monette did a fantastic job of creating a mouthpiece that not only fit the horn, but makes it play easier than ever before.

Here are a couple of snapshots of the finished product:





(They even engraved "CONN" in it!)

If you happen to use Monette mouthpieces and old Conn cornets, this is the ticket.

[1957Tim]

steevo,

How cool is that! I used a Monette mouthpiece in my trumpet for a number of years. I had two, and a buddy of mine liked the Prana version so much that I loaned it to him. He lives some distance away so I talk to him on the phone from time to time. He has had this piece for over six years now, and is still playing in his 80's.

I'm glad Dave was able to get you fixed up here. I'm afraid to ask you what it cost so I won't.

Thanks for sharing steevo.

-1957Tim

[malden]

[1957Tim]

malden,

How was that for timing? I am a fan of Mark Curry’s work. I use Flip Oakes mouthpieces, which are made by Mark, plus I also use one from Mark’s lineup that Flip recommended for me. The quality and affordability of his pieces can’t be beat.

Concerning your vintage King Master. You know he could do it if he had all the right information. Hopefully he will be able to find time to respond. I know he is one busy guy.

I’m sure you’ve tried this new piece in your King Master; was it a poor fit?

Thanks for sharing the end result with us malden. Now it's time to put that mouthpiece to work.

-1957Tim

[steevo]

[Richard III]

[1957Tim]

Richard III,

I don’t have a big selection of mouthpieces, but here is what I’ve tried. A Mendez “O” came with the horn, and it only inserts about ¾” into the receiver. I tried a King 7K, a Frank Holton 77, and one other Holton piece that a friend wanted, I don’t remember just what it was, but it had a very deep v cup. I tried two different Flip Oakes pieces, a Conn EZ Tone, and lastly a Curry standard shank mouthpiece. Of all these, the Curry worked the best, but it still didn’t fit correctly. I am hoping this means that the taper is not worn down which you and GordonH mentioned the possibility of earlier in the thread.

Have you ever played the Conn 12A? A music store-owner in my area recently told me the 12A is harder to find than many other models, and that it was an extremely well playing/well built horn. He said he had one 12A on hand, and that he was asking almost a grand for it. I’m not that familiar with all the various vintage horns, but once the valves are refit and I get a good fitting mouthpiece I believe this horn will be a player. It was refurbished in 2000, so physically it looks like a new horn.

Take care Richard and thanks for the added information.

-1957Tim

[Dale Proctor]

I believe the 5A Victor and the 9A Victor are two of the finest cornets Conn ever built. Luckily, they were introduced in the early 1960s, so there are no mouthpiece shank issues with them. I guarantee the 9A is much rarer than the 12A, and I can't imagine a 12A being worth $1000.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[1957Tim]

Dale,

I love the looks of the 9A. There’s just something special about that copper bell. When I was a kid, one the older neighbor boys played a copper belled Conn cornet. I believe it was a Director. He died while still a teenager, but his sister still has this horn. I played it on several occasions at her request and thought it played real nice. I’ve liked these copper belled Conn’s ever since, now I have my own.

A repair tech told me that this 12A’s great condition combined with having the valves redone would make the top dollar value to the right person in the $750 range. I’m not looking to sell the horn; I was just curious what the value would be after having the valves refitted. That information helped me decide to go ahead and have the valve work done. I’m not the buyer/seller type; in fact, I’ve never sold one of my horns. I currently have three on loan, so they are being played, but I wouldn’t want to sell them. I’m sure my wife will take care of that for me if I pass on before she does.

Take care Dale and thanks for sharing; I always enjoy reading your posts.

-1957Tim

[Dale Proctor]

Tim, that sounds about right. Not knocking the 12A, as I've never played one (but I'd like to further my Conn education by doing so). Conn made a huge variety of very good instruments "back in the day". I used to own a 17A Director and it played very well to be a student-level cornet. A little too trumpet-like in the tone department, but it was easy to play and had good intonation throughout.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[Richard III]

If your cornet comes out anything like this:

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn12A1940image.html

It will be a beautiful instrument. I've never played a 12A. I do have a 5A and it really has a unique sound. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for my trad jazz band but it really puts out the sound.

Tim, it looks like the only thing you haven't tried for a mouthpiece is a Conn? If that is true, what is stopping you? I've picked up many from Ebay and they are fun bunch to play.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[1957Tim]

Richard III,

I bought this 12A from the original owner. He is almost 80 years old and had to sell his beloved Conn cornet due to downsizing/health issues. He told me that he sent it back to Conn in 2000 and told them he wanted it to look like it did the day his father gave it to him. (He was a serious cornet player in junior high school back in 1952 when he received this horn) They did a wonderful job on the horn, and it does look like a new horn, however, their restoration obviously didn’t include a valve job, so I’m the lucky guy who gets to bring the valve action back to like new status.

I actually bought a Conn EZ Tone mouthpiece off eBay for this horn, but it didn’t fit right. I’ve actually contacted Mark Curry and he is going to make the right piece for it. It will be after the July 4th holiday before I have the horn back from Anderson Plating, so I should have the Curry piece in hand when the horn arrives.

Take care Richard,

-1957Tim