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Instrumentalists & College Admissions



 
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject: Instrumentalists & College Admissions Reply with quote

Heard an interesting story and I’ve been thinking about it recently. I was participating in an honors band group at a local college and the director told us this:

A student who had participated in that honors band really wanted to go to Dartmouth. Unfortunately, he got wait listed. Upon telling the band director his situation, the director asked if he mentioned that he played the xylophone in the application. The student hadn’t said anything about playing the xylophone in the application. The director, wanting the best for the student, called Dartmouth and told that the student played xylophone, and was a good player that had participated in the honors group. The student was then accepted and given a $22,000 scholarship.

The student was not majoring music, and the scholarship meant he had to participate in the university band.

I’m assuming Dartmouth was short on percussionists and it was a rare circumstance...but I don’t know for sure why it was such a big turnaround. Hopefully folks who work at universities can chime in on this. What’s the deal here...? How can I use the trumpet to get into or get scholarships from colleges in which I may want to attend?
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astadler
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you are majoring in music, playing the trumpet isn't likely to get you accepted to college, though mentioning it as part of your application can't hurt; schools are always looking for well-rounded students who have many interests regardless of their major.

Assuming that everything the director said was true, it's likely that the band director at Dartmouth has some weight to throw around. Since the student was already wait listed, that means they met the academic qualifications for the university, there just wasn't room for them immediately. The funding likely came from the band department, or the band director pulled some other strings to get further help.

All that being said, many big school marching bands will hold scholarship auditions independently of music school auditions. My undergrad institution would do just that, and though it wasn't a ton of money (maybe just $1000/year?) every little bit helps.
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andybharms
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let’s not play the speculation game. The band director at Dartmouth is a friend.

If true, it is always within the student’s right to ask why. I think, as we are finding out with this current Harvard case, the admissions and scholarship process for colleges is pretty unfortunately opaque, but false information won’t help.
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astadler
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I apologize, I wasn't questioning anyone's integrity, but with stories like this, especially one told at an honor band to a group of students, exaggerations are common. I am not at all trying to call the director into question (and from the OP, it's not entirely clear whether the Dartmouth band director was the one telling the story, or a different director conducting the honor band).

Again, being waitlisted usually means you are qualified, but they can only accept so many students. If a faculty member comes in with an argument for why a waitlisted student can benefit the school, that can go a long way. Going from the waitlist to a $22k/year scholarship seems drastic, which is the only reason why I question this story at all. Figures like that can be easily changed in retelling, especially if you're trying to convince the students that it's worth asking (I know that amount of money would get my attention!).
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JoseLindE4
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Instrumentalists & College Admissions Reply with quote

CJceltics33 wrote:
How can I use the trumpet to get into or get scholarships from colleges in which I may want to attend?


If you want scholarship money for music, learn viola, bassoon, or oboe. I'm kind of joking but not mostly not joking.

As for going from waitlist to scholarship, a few points:
1. Objectively, a student with a GPA/SAT of X that also is a musician is a stronger candidate than the same scores without the music. They're also more likely to succeed in school.

2. Scholarship amounts at private schools can be pretty gaudy due to their price. A full scholarship at a private school has the same value as a full scholarship at a state school (assuming comparable schools), but the private school scholarship will have a higher dollar amount.

3. If true, good for him.
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snichols
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andybharms wrote:
Let’s not play the speculation game. The band director at Dartmouth is a friend.


Not necessarily. Saying that the band director is a friend is speculation itself. The actual circumstances may not be as nefarious. Each school is different, and Dartmouth seems to just be a special case with regards to the scholarship money they hand out. They are private, small, and have tons of money (their endowment is close to $5 billion, which is enormous for a school with only 6k students). Then on top of that, Dartmouth has a policy to meet 100% of financial need of all admitted students. At my school (which is public, no less) we have legitimate channels in place so that if a student is on the borderline/wait list for their admission application, the music school can make a case for their acceptance based off their musical ability, need for their instrument, value to the department, etc. There's no reason to think Dartmouth couldn't have a similar process in place. So once the music department made the request to admit the student, the student would have automatically received scholarship funds to meet his/her need, based on Dartmouth's policy. The first part of that situation happens all the time at many schools. A student is wait listed, but the academic department can try to get them admitted based on their skills. The part with the scholarship just happens to be the result of Dartmouth having a lot of money and using it to guarantee financial aid to admitted students. Things like this are not always the result of secret back room networking/nepotism schemes.

OP, if you're looking for something like this, as others have mentioned, you may want to temper your expectations. You'll likely need to have a great academic record so that there's no doubt about getting your admission application through, and look for a small school (where they may have a shortage of good musicians) that has a lot of money. Good percussionists are in shorter supply than good trumpeters. So assuming you are a very good trumpeter, they still likely won't take you sight unseen. You'll need to find or arrange the opportunity to play for the music faculty. They may even want you to at least minor in music. In general, you're unlikely to get this sort of treatment at a school with good ensembles or high-caliber students. To put Dartmouth's money and smaller music program into perspective, they have had concerts in the past for their choral ensembles where they've spent the money to hire out many of the orchestral musicians because their own orchestra wasn't equipped to play the works.

But to answer your last question more directly, the Dartmouth scholarship likely didn't even come from your friend's musical talent, but was a blanket scholarship where they guarantee need-based funding for all of their students. If you have the academic credentials and are very good at trumpet, your best bet would be to find a school with guaranteed scholarship funding like Dartmouth's and then just focus on trying to get admitted (leveraging your musical skills if you can).
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great replies so far, thank you very much. Now that you saw that, it does make sense the scholarship was a financial thing.

How about this scenario:
There’s a student who wants to go to an engineering school, let’s say MIT. Straight A’s, 1400+ SATs, and a big interest in engineering. Beyond academics, this student hasn’t done much in the field of engineering. Obviously, this is still solid, but not quite good enough for a school such as MIT. They would be a sub-par student at MIT.
However, this student plays flute. Phenomenal flute player...All-State for a few years, has taken private lessons, and is already better than every flute player at MIT, regardless of the fact there is no shortage of flute players there. The student plans to double major in engineering and flute.

I would think that the student would NOT get accepted, as it is an engineering and technology based school that probably doesn’t care much about their band. But I’m curious what you’re speculations and thoughts are.
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CJceltics33 wrote:
...I would think that the student would NOT get accepted, as it is an engineering and technology based school that probably doesn’t care much about their band. ...

Maybe yes, maybe no. One of the NPR Car Talk brothers was an MIT graduate, majoring in Humanities.
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snichols
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CJceltics33 wrote:
Great replies so far, thank you very much. Now that you saw that, it does make sense the scholarship was a financial thing.

How about this scenario:
There’s a student who wants to go to an engineering school, let’s say MIT. Straight A’s, 1400+ SATs, and a big interest in engineering. Beyond academics, this student hasn’t done much in the field of engineering. Obviously, this is still solid, but not quite good enough for a school such as MIT. They would be a sub-par student at MIT.
However, this student plays flute. Phenomenal flute player...All-State for a few years, has taken private lessons, and is already better than every flute player at MIT, regardless of the fact there is no shortage of flute players there. The student plans to double major in engineering and flute.

I would think that the student would NOT get accepted, as it is an engineering and technology based school that probably doesn’t care much about their band. But I’m curious what you’re speculations and thoughts are.


Impossible to say as an outsider. Keep in mind that (oddly enough) MIT has a music major, so a person could theoretically get accepted to the music program and be admitted to MIT, but not be accepted into the engineering program. Just like how music departments have the audition as an additional requirement beyond the school's admission process, other departments can have additional requirements as well. I couldn't begin to venture a guess as to how much engineering experience MIT would require of an undergraduate applicant. That being said, if you are actually talking about MIT, some points to consider are (1) Their music program may not be very good, (2) they could potentially not get accepted to the engineering program, (3) I have heard that MIT can be very rigorous, busy, and stressful. I would question the reasoning and feasibility behind a double major if the applicant got into both programs.

There is always the possibility, even at state schools to be accepted to the University as a whole (through the Admissions process), but not be accepted into the specific program of choice. That can leave a person in a bit of a pickle, because enrolling as an undeclared major doesn't guarantee successful admission to your desired program a year or two into your time there. It would suck to spend one or two years and thousands of dollars only to still not be accepted to your desired major.

All that said, with all A's, 1400+ SAT's and extracurricular experience, there are plenty of good engineering schools that the applicant would likely be able to get into. Nothing wrong with giving MIT a try, but I wouldn't expect music skills to get a person into the engineering program.
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FreddieSullivan
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found a lot of helpful tips here, thank you.
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RobertCharlton
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fact, this is a unique story. Something similar can happen if you play football and you are in a major league. But Trumpet is unlikely, or music, in general, can help to get a place. BUT, a strange thing happened to me when I entered the University of California, I was also first refused, and then my mentor advised me to rewrite my personal introductory essay, and I ordered it at https://studyhippo.com/importance-of-history/ where it was done very competently. And right after that, a miracle happened, I was accepted on the budget, and I just replaced one paper.
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