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Heavy Valve Block On Flugel - What does it do?



 
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GuidoCorona
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:00 am    Post subject: Heavy Valve Block On Flugel - What does it do? Reply with quote

Some designers -- like Miel Adams with F2, and Hub Van Laar with Oiram Fresu and Oiram Sandoval -- feature heavy valve blocs on some flugel models… Or offer heavy blocks as custom options. Yet, the engineering goal for the use of heavy blocks is still a little unclear to me.

What is the expected effect of heavy blocks on

• Tone and Overtones
• Intonation
• Core
• Projection
• Slotting
• Stability on low to high dynamics

What might be other advantages and disadvantages when contrasted with standard weight blocks?

Regards, Guido
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Last edited by GuidoCorona on Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GuidoCorona
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For example, the Adams standard valve block for flugels weighs 400 grams, while the the heavy block specific to the Adams F2 flugel weighs 535 grams.

Comments/opinions?

G.
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest you contact Miel Adams directly and ask him. Here's his email address:

Miel.adams@adams.nl
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Proportionality, balance and experience.

I am not a maker, but I suspect that the larger block responds better, considering Flugels have more mass than a trumpet.

Off the top of my head, I can only picture Bach Flugels that have a valve block that is the same or very similar to their trumpets.. They are a small bore design, which I'm speculating may be part of the reason.


Interesting question. I'd like to see what some manufacturors have to say.
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GuidoCorona
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Hermokiwi and Zaferis,

Excellent point about proportionality and response…. Doubtless, flugels might in general have slightly greater mass than trumpets, as bell branches are wider and gages often heavier… So, it is quite possible that proportionally heavier valve blocks might enhance response and perhaps projection, while helping to control tone break-up during high dynamics.

On the other hand… I have not played on a flugel with a heavy block yet, let alone compared such a horn with an equivalent instrument with a valve block of standard weight… So, mine remains a pure hypothesis.

According to a comment I have heard, heavy blocks on flugels might dampen upper overtones, making the horn more suitable for jazz than for brass band or classical… But is this concern valid?

Trent, if you are reading this, I would love to hear your expert opinion.


G.
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bagmangood
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The heavy block is standard on the F2 because it is a different model of horn than the F1

If you have an opportunity to try the F1 vs. the F2, you will probably have a strong preference for one or the other. I'd try to describe the differences but I haven't played either in a few years
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GuidoCorona
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you bagmangood.. Play-testing F1 and F2 side-by-side would help. Regretably, such a test is not in the cards. But if you still remember just a little bit from your own play-testing comparison, I’d love to read it.

My target flugel is a custom Adams F4 4-valver with 170mm bell... Should I order it with

• Standard block?
• Standard block with a spare heavy trim kit?
• Full blown heavy block and trim kit?

My tonal goal is a legit or classical tembre.

G.
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TrentAustin
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GuidoCorona wrote:
Thank you bagmangood.. Play-testing F1 and F2 side-by-side would help. Regretably, such a test is not in the cards. But if you still remember just a little bit from your own play-testing comparison, I’d love to read it.

My target flugel is a custom Adams F4 4-valver with 170mm bell... Should I order it with

• Standard block?
• Standard block with a spare heavy trim kit?
• Full blown heavy block and trim kit?

My tonal goal is a legit or classical tembre.

G.


Guido,

Please Call us at 781-944-6247 (we don't spend much time on TH anymore). We can easily guide through the order process.

-T
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GuidoCorona
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning Trent, always good hearing from you!

I will definitely call your new shop -- A MUST part of my birthday celebration *Grins!*

Meantime, I was looking forward to you sharing your deep knowledge of things flugellian directly with us questers, and so enhance the common lore on such slightly exotic matters as 4-valve flugel heavy valve blocks and step-bores, whereas in the wild there exist only scant opinions, and even less fact-based hard information.

Saluti, Guido
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TrentAustin
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GuidoCorona wrote:
Good morning Trent, always good hearing from you!

I will definitely call your new shop -- A MUST part of my birthday celebration *Grins!*

Meantime, I was looking forward to you sharing your deep knowledge of things flugellian directly with us questers, and so enhance the common lore on such slightly exotic matters as 4-valve flugel heavy valve blocks and step-bores, whereas in the wild there exist only scant opinions, and even less fact-based hard information.

Saluti, Guido


We'll look forward to hearing from you soon. Happy Birthday!
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