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GuidoCorona Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2014 Posts: 377 Location: Summerville, SC
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Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:00 am Post subject: Heavy Valve Block On Flugel - What does it do? |
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Some designers -- like Miel Adams with F2, and Hub Van Laar with Oiram Fresu and Oiram Sandoval -- feature heavy valve blocs on some flugel models… Or offer heavy blocks as custom options. Yet, the engineering goal for the use of heavy blocks is still a little unclear to me.
What is the expected effect of heavy blocks on
• Tone and Overtones
• Intonation
• Core
• Projection
• Slotting
• Stability on low to high dynamics
What might be other advantages and disadvantages when contrasted with standard weight blocks?
Regards, Guido _________________ Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo
Last edited by GuidoCorona on Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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GuidoCorona Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2014 Posts: 377 Location: Summerville, SC
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Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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For example, the Adams standard valve block for flugels weighs 400 grams, while the the heavy block specific to the Adams F2 flugel weighs 535 grams.
Comments/opinions?
G. _________________ Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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I suggest you contact Miel Adams directly and ask him. Here's his email address:
Miel.adams@adams.nl _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2322 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:44 am Post subject: |
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Proportionality, balance and experience.
I am not a maker, but I suspect that the larger block responds better, considering Flugels have more mass than a trumpet.
Off the top of my head, I can only picture Bach Flugels that have a valve block that is the same or very similar to their trumpets.. They are a small bore design, which I'm speculating may be part of the reason.
Interesting question. I'd like to see what some manufacturors have to say. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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GuidoCorona Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2014 Posts: 377 Location: Summerville, SC
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Hermokiwi and Zaferis,
Excellent point about proportionality and response…. Doubtless, flugels might in general have slightly greater mass than trumpets, as bell branches are wider and gages often heavier… So, it is quite possible that proportionally heavier valve blocks might enhance response and perhaps projection, while helping to control tone break-up during high dynamics.
On the other hand… I have not played on a flugel with a heavy block yet, let alone compared such a horn with an equivalent instrument with a valve block of standard weight… So, mine remains a pure hypothesis.
According to a comment I have heard, heavy blocks on flugels might dampen upper overtones, making the horn more suitable for jazz than for brass band or classical… But is this concern valid?
Trent, if you are reading this, I would love to hear your expert opinion.
G. _________________ Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo |
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bagmangood Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2009 Posts: 1352 Location: SF Bay Area
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:33 am Post subject: |
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The heavy block is standard on the F2 because it is a different model of horn than the F1
If you have an opportunity to try the F1 vs. the F2, you will probably have a strong preference for one or the other. I'd try to describe the differences but I haven't played either in a few years _________________ More than one trumpet
A "few" mouthpieces |
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GuidoCorona Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2014 Posts: 377 Location: Summerville, SC
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Thank you bagmangood.. Play-testing F1 and F2 side-by-side would help. Regretably, such a test is not in the cards. But if you still remember just a little bit from your own play-testing comparison, I’d love to read it.
My target flugel is a custom Adams F4 4-valver with 170mm bell... Should I order it with
• Standard block?
• Standard block with a spare heavy trim kit?
• Full blown heavy block and trim kit?
My tonal goal is a legit or classical tembre.
G. _________________ Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo |
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TrentAustin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 Posts: 5485 Location: KC MO
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:31 am Post subject: |
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GuidoCorona wrote: | Thank you bagmangood.. Play-testing F1 and F2 side-by-side would help. Regretably, such a test is not in the cards. But if you still remember just a little bit from your own play-testing comparison, I’d love to read it.
My target flugel is a custom Adams F4 4-valver with 170mm bell... Should I order it with
• Standard block?
• Standard block with a spare heavy trim kit?
• Full blown heavy block and trim kit?
My tonal goal is a legit or classical tembre.
G. |
Guido,
Please Call us at 781-944-6247 (we don't spend much time on TH anymore). We can easily guide through the order process.
-T _________________ http://austincustombrass.biz
http://trentaustinmusic.com
http://instagram.com/austincustombrass
This acct will be deactivated as of March 2021. email info@austincustombass.com |
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GuidoCorona Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2014 Posts: 377 Location: Summerville, SC
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:13 am Post subject: |
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Good morning Trent, always good hearing from you!
I will definitely call your new shop -- A MUST part of my birthday celebration *Grins!*
Meantime, I was looking forward to you sharing your deep knowledge of things flugellian directly with us questers, and so enhance the common lore on such slightly exotic matters as 4-valve flugel heavy valve blocks and step-bores, whereas in the wild there exist only scant opinions, and even less fact-based hard information.
Saluti, Guido _________________ Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo |
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TrentAustin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 Posts: 5485 Location: KC MO
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:13 am Post subject: |
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GuidoCorona wrote: | Good morning Trent, always good hearing from you!
I will definitely call your new shop -- A MUST part of my birthday celebration *Grins!*
Meantime, I was looking forward to you sharing your deep knowledge of things flugellian directly with us questers, and so enhance the common lore on such slightly exotic matters as 4-valve flugel heavy valve blocks and step-bores, whereas in the wild there exist only scant opinions, and even less fact-based hard information.
Saluti, Guido |
We'll look forward to hearing from you soon. Happy Birthday! _________________ http://austincustombrass.biz
http://trentaustinmusic.com
http://instagram.com/austincustombrass
This acct will be deactivated as of March 2021. email info@austincustombass.com |
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