Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:04 am Post subject: Trad/Dixie Soloing
Some of the front line players I gig with like to play counter melodies while another horn is soloing. I think there should be rhythm only behind a soloist. What do you think? _________________ Jim Hatfield
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2412 Location: Maryland
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Trad/Dixie Soloing
jhatpro wrote:
Some of the front line players I gig with like to play counter melodies while another horn is soloing. I think there should be rhythm only behind a soloist. What do you think?
There are no "should be's" here. Do whatever you want. Maybe defer to the desires of the soloist or the leader. FWIW, when I'm soloing, I enjoy when members of the band play something complementary behind me.
Also, this doesn't need to be limited to the other horn players. The members of the rhythm section can also play complementary licks behind the soloist. This is very common.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:11 am Post subject:
Experienced players know how to stay in the background with very subtle, unobtrusive counterpoint early in the song, and then how to bring it with enthusiastic collective improv near the end. Here's just one example:
As leader, you can take someone aside if they're consistently crossing the line and give them some constructive coaching. That might work better, and be more fun for everyone, than a strict rule of absolutely-no-counterpoint-behind-someone-else's-solo. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Joined: 13 May 2015 Posts: 295 Location: Mississippi
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:42 pm Post subject:
If I'm in the audience, I'd enjoy the variety of your doing some of both, i.e., some solos with just rhythm section and others with counter melodies going on. The key to that is the non-soloing musicians complimenting the soloist rather than competing with him.
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2654 Location: Anacortes, WA
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:35 pm Post subject:
So when the lead sheet has a note held we know that actually isn't what is desired. That space is for the other players to fill in a complimentary way. Rests, same thing. Backing players who know what they are doing automatically know to play the fill parts. Right? _________________ Richard
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:45 pm Post subject:
In principle, other horn embellishments can enhance a solo much the way Sweets Edison could bring something special to a vocal. Trouble is there aren’t many players who do that well. _________________ Jim Hatfield
Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 805 Location: South Carolina
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:24 pm Post subject:
jhatpro wrote:
Trouble is there aren’t many players who do that well.
Aye, there's the rub. The issue isn't should they compliment the solo or should they not, but whether or not you have a player who knows how to compliment the soloist and knows when not to play.
Warm regards,
Grits _________________ Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy.
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:09 am Post subject:
Mike Sailors wrote:
Man, I love that video. If you're ever in NYC, the Ear Inn on a Sunday night is a must visit.
I can confirm that the Earregulars are amazing and the Ear Inn is worth a visit if you want to hear it done the right way with bonhomie! _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.
we sometimes add counter melody licks behind soloists. We make them up on the spot but often it's a simple rhythmic figure that adds punctuation. The bone player might lean over and say "Dah! Dah-Dat!) to me and we're off. You pick your notes. And sometimes we don't do that. Sometimes we add pad notes (long tones) often just in the bridge behind soloists. Sometimes we don't. It's an adventure! Keep it interesting for audience and for the players.
We're just trying to add sonic variety--sometimes solos with just rhythm, sometimes solos with added horn background. Listen to the NOLA group Jazz Vipers and you'll see them add backgrounds (often in the bridge). Check out 3:01 and they're adding backgrounds behind the alto solo. Of course, they play this tune frequently and know it backwards and forwards.
I got the opportunity to hear him live at ITG this year. He's one of those guys that I've always admired from afar because he knows the old school literature so well. What really blew me away about him was his emulation, sound wise, of the players whose music he was performing. He went from Bix to Satchmo to Little Jazz(Roy Eldridge). Just amazing. _________________ Jim New S5 M and MS with C Backbore
Del Quadro Grizzly
Stomvi USA Bb
Getzen Severinsen
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