Cornet Basic Questions and Advice

[Craig S]

So, I'm a recent comeback player. I, currently, only own a trumpet. A trumpet which needs a professional chem cleaning. I spoke with the repair tech at my LMS (local music store), and he told me that it would probably be 2 weeks+ before I would get it back after dropping it off. Apparently, they are very busy during the summer with school rentals, personnel taking vacations, etc. I realize I should've done this prior to starting back up, but it was a fairly spur of the moment decision and I just wanted to start playing again. Plus, I didn't know that was even a thing! Anyway, at this point, I don't want to take that long off from playing. So, I'm considering buying a cornet.

I've wanted to try one out since I started looking into as many things trumpet as I can. This gives me an excuse, err, reason to buy one. I have a few questions about cornet basics that I would like to have some information on. I understand that the cornet is conical instead of cylindrical tubing like the trumpet. Obviously, the wrap is also very different. There some things that are not so obvious to me.

What is the difference between a Shepherd's Crook cornet and a regular (standard bell curve--not sure what one calls a cornet that isn't a Shepherd's Crook??)? What does having or not having it do to the cornet's sound? Is one preferred over the other? Why?

Are there other things that I probably don't know or understand about cornets that should be addressed before taking the plunge? One never knows what s/he doesn't know!

Because this would just be a back up horn, I'm looking specifically at used horns, and I'm not looking to break the bank. The ones I'm leaning toward are anywhere in price from $80-250 shipped (mostly looking at ordering one online). I would like as close to a standard cornet sound as possible. The ones I'm looking at are:
A couple of Holton C602s (One sans mouthpiece)
A Besson Prototype
A Yamaha 2330II
A Bach 300
A plethora of Olds Ambassadors in this same price range, but the others listed are in fantastic shape for their relative prices.

My LMS also has a couple of used cornets for sale right now, but they are ROUGH looking! I know the sound is more important, but, if I got one from my LMS, I'd probably end up stripping the lacquer off and going raw brass. One is a Conn (not sure of the model) and the other is, I think, an Olds (not Ambassador). I will double check when I go in for my lesson Saturday. Any input or feedback would be appreciated!

[Andy Del]

Well, there's a lot to cover, but keeping it short (not terse):

1. 2 weeks off is nothing. Take the time to do of the trumpet work, such as buzzing, breathing, aural, listening. If you need help with the trumpet type exercises, get a teacher and start learning about this. It will be the best 2 weeks you ever gave the horn!

2. Cornets are radically different beasts. If you have no ambitions as to playing in bands, jazz, etc. just get one which works, the shepherd's crock matters nought. The darkest, warmest cogent I own doesn't have a crock on the bell.

3. If you must, get the Yamaha. Avoid the Bachs and ESPECIALLY Bessons like the plague. Ambassadors will be clapped out unless you are lucky, so too Holtons. Be prepared to put more $$$ into it.

good luck.

cheers

Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes...

[bnsd]

I have a clapped out Olds Ambassador as well as a newer Getzen Capri. Both horns are very reactive to mouthpiece choice. I love the getzen valves but it was significantly over your price range. I like the Yamaha too ... good solid horn.

[Craig S]

Andy,
1. I'm only several months into my comeback. A day here or there isn't a big deal, but I'm worried about getting out of the habit of practicing and a loss of chop strength.

2. It's not that I don't necessarily have any aspirations to play in any bands, but, at this point, it's not possible. I'm nowhere near back to a point where I would play in public.

What does "clapped out" mean?

bnsd,
My trumpet is a Getzen Capri. I love it! If most are like my horn, I'm sure they're great horns. The only Getzen I could probably get ahold of, at this point, would be a 300 cornet. I'm not sure where that would be when compared to those that I'm looking at, now.

[Denny Schreffler]

[bnsd]

Clapped out usually means (in my experience) worn; squished felt, dry corks, dings and dents, worn finish, solder issues, sticky valves or loose valves, frozen slides

As for the capri...I like it enough I regret not waiting on an eterna or 3850.

[Pete]

I have a Yamaha 2330 and it is an awesome horn! I have had it since they first came out. 20 years maybe? As long as it is in good shape it is a great player.

Pete

[Dale Proctor]

Given the choices you listed, I'd go with the Yamaha. If you read the Robb Stewart article, read and understand the whole of the article, not just the comparison of conical vs cylindrical. There are other differences besides that one point of contention, such as rate of taper in the conical segments.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[Seymor B Fudd]

[boog]

I have a couple of Conn Director cornets that are very good instruments.

One is a bottom valve spring director from about 1967 with the copper bell. VERY easy to maintain with the 5 slides. You can get to almost all of the interior of the horn with a brush or swab for maintenance. Also the valves are in great shape, as is usual for old Conn trumpets and cornets. A few dents and pecks, but they add "character" to the horn. AND, it has a decent cornet tone, with a good cornet mouthpiece (I use a Denis Wick 4).

My other Conn is a Japanese (probably made by Yamaha) from 1970. It is a closet queen, no dents at all, and it also plays very well. It has a more "trumpety"' sound than the older one, but it was designed by Schilke, as the story goes, and is a top valve spring arrangement. This one is my usual "go-to" cornet for gigs, as she is a real looker, if that is important.

I paid less than $90 for each of these fine instruments, shipped. I have noticed that they have gone up a bit, but so has everything else.

I also have 5 old King Master Models, from 75-100+ years old, but the valves on all of them need overhauling, so they are not used in public much. A couple of them are truly "clapped out"! They are true cornet-sounding instruments, and I sometimes play one for a church solo or some such.

If you are interested in a daily player, I would avoid the extremely old instruments, such as my King Masters. I just think they are cool horns, and I enjoy them. I have a complete outfit with one of them, over 100 years old, dent free, original case (ahh! the aroma!), lyre, "A" slides, etc. and it is in great shape, but it has been, unfortunately, refinished sometime in the past, therefore making it less valuable. But it plays very well with an incredible classic cornet sound. But, for what you are looking for, go for something newer, trust me!

Good Luck in your search!

[Craig S]

I'm definitely open to suggestions. The listed horns are just what I've been able to find with a little light searching. These are also makes I've seen recommended on here in other threads, which is why I was leaning toward them. I might be able to go a little more on price, but a $500+ horn is too much for me to afford right now.

I'm really looking for something will have that darker cornet sound. Not really looking for something that sounds too much like a trumpet, or I could just get a used trumpet for a backup.

I will look closer at the ones at my LMS. I only gave them a cursory glance last time.

As far as my biggest question: what is the difference between a shepherd's crook vs non-shepherd's crook horn? How does that extra curve affect the sound?

I've seen the Denis Wick 4B touted a lot on here. I have a DW3C trumpet mouthpiece. I love the feel of it, but my chops seem to tire out quicker on it versus my Bach Megatone 3C. Would the cornet mpc be similar in feel and backbore (my assumption as to why I tire out quicker on the DW about which I could be wrong)?

[roynj]

[Dale Proctor]

Most shepherds crook cornets have a richer tone than the longer "American wrap" ones, but that's more a function of the overall design, not just the extra crook in the bell. That's not a hard fast rule, though. You need to play various cornets to find one with the tone and agility you like.

As for mouthpieces, a big short-shank cornet mouthpiece will give you the most contrast from a trumpet, but will be more taxing to play. A Wick 4B will be substantially more demanding to play than your Wick trumpet mouthpiece.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[Craig S]

Thank you everyone for the responses thus far. The info has been enlightening. I really didn't know what I didn't know!

[jondrowjf@gmail.com]

I have owned many cornets. Personally I prefer the Shepherds crook cornet over the American style. Really enjoy playing my Yamaha YCR 2330 Shepherds crook cornet. One the things I like best are the fixed ring on the 3rd slide and the thumb hook on the 1st slide. Using two different Yamaha mouthpieces: 14 E and Denis Wick 3 mouthpiece.

My non shepherds crook cornet; is a Conn 17 A cornet. Just got back from the music store.
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King 603 cornet
Yamaha 2330 cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold cornet mouthpiece
Yamaha 11 e4 cornet mouthpiece
Yamaha 9e cornet mouthpiece
Bach 5 B cornet mouthpiece

[good4ya2]

[good4ya2]

Hi,
I have a CG Conn Coronet in the original case(not in good condition) from the late 1800s, serial number is 51125. it need some work but it is all there including 3 mouth pieces and one is real unique. I am debating selling it or getting it rebuilt and keeping it.
I am not a musician but it seems like a real cool piece.
Can anyone shed some light on this? What I should do?
Thank you

[kehaulani]

Craig, did you settle on one?









craig, did you settle on one?
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[VetPsychWars]

[Craig S]