Third valve sticks - why?

cheiden · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:56 am Post subject:

I've dealt with this a few different times. Here's a list of things that have helped.
1) Thorough cleaning and wipe down
2) Change of valve oil
3) Cleaning the short ports that connect the cylinders together
4) Removed a tiny burr from a piston port
5) Straightened a slide
6) Had a shop reshape and polish the inside of a cylinder that had been pushed in
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

LittleRusty · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:31 am Post subject:

kehaulani · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:39 am Post subject:

But should all of the technical adjustments have been made when the horn had a chemical cleaning and valve alignment done two years ago and then a subsequent tecnician done cleaning a couple of months ago? Forgive my naivete.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

cheiden · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:08 am Post subject:

I wouldn't expect routine maintenance including an alignment to address an intermittently sticking valve. I've seen way too many other people's horns whose valves stick for me, though their owners have no issue whatsoever. My teacher's main Bb has valves that hang up like mad for me but for him the valves are flawless.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

kehaulani · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:10 am Post subject:

Thanks, Cheiden.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

kehaulani · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:33 am Post subject:

Just to close the loop, I switched the valve guides and the third valve no longer sticks. Neither does the valve to which I switched it. (For now).
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

jazzvuu · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:06 pm Post subject:

I had a Strad with the same problem you are describing. For that horn, the bottom part of the valve cylinder was cramped on or something when they tried to remove the bottom cap. So on fast fingers stuff it was fine but at moments that the 3rd valve was down for a longer moment, it would hang. I figure it out by trying to insert the 3rd valve gently from the bottom up and it would not fit (were as the 1st and 2nd valves went in smoothly.).

plp · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:42 am Post subject:

Glad you got it resolved.

With me, it is the 1st valve on my flugel. Without fail, if it hasn't been played for a couple days, will hang up until it is oiled. After that, works fine. The other two are good to go all the time, is just that 1st valve.

I bought new valves for it about a year ago, was a lot worse before replacing them but still does it.
_________________
Since all other motives—fame, money, power, even honor—are thrown out the window the moment I pick up that instrument..... I play because I love doing it, even when the results are disappointing. In short, I do it to do it.” Wayne Booth

Tromba15 · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:07 am Post subject: Third valve sticky - why?

Some good feedback here already!

Over the last 40+ years teaching trumpet, I have encountered several situations where we corrected the hand position to get the third finger into a position to push the third valve down from above and centered with a curved finger and not from the side of the cap.

Often, the third valve sticks because it was broken in/worn down from the side with the misaligned third finger and when the finger position is correct the valve sticks!

The posts that suggest thicker oil make perfect sense as the thick oil keeps the worn valve from essentially rattling around and sticking on the high spots.

When I hand a student my horn, they see that the third valve doesn't stick with proper third finger position. I'm not saying my hand position is perfect, but thanks to my teachers over the years I did develop an awareness and pretty good hand position.

Bottom line: heavier oil or replating/overlapping the valves! This is another great reason for proper hand position, especially in a new horn! $$$
_________________
Don M. McLaurin