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Sudden amnesia


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Cola
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Joined: 30 Jan 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Alma, Quebec

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Sudden amnesia Reply with quote

I suddently forgot how to play. I've had GREAT weeks in may-june, then all of a sudden I forgot everything. My embouchure. What the f? People usually say to rest and re-start with long tones. I've been doing this THE WHOLE WEEK so stop it with your usual ''play softer, long tones, easy stuff'' blabla, because I've done EVERYTHING I had to do to play right. I rest, I think about the important stuff when I play, but why did I lose my grip and why is it NOT coming back? How can I get out of this hell, I could blow all my range up to a high C (not the greatest, but for someone who went through all kind of changes like me, it's ok I guess). Now I'm struggling to play a Frickin' MIDDLE C at ppp in my long tones. WHY?\!!!!@!?%? I have so many problems with the horn. My teacher says it's all good and will come back, but it doesn't. I feel that at any point in my life, I'll never know when I play at my 100%% and it literaly took its toll on my mental health, but the more i try to outsmart the horn, understand it, experiment with techniques and routines (I am very obsessive about balanced, strict routine), the more I have ups and downs. I've had an embouchure change, but it feels like it's not settled. I did it more than a year ago, it should be dealt with!!!!! WHY AM I CURSED TO BLOW THROUGH THE HORN AND NEVER KNOW WHAT HAPPENS, even though I do everything to make things consistent?

Here's my routine, if you think there's an issue

David zauder's trumpet method (A,B,C sections), including a warm-up

Day 1 (med)
AB
Clarke n2
repertoire (30 m. max)
Vamp over 13 minutes of a progression (blocks of 3-4 mins.)

Day 2 (hard)
AC
Lick in 12 keys
Vamp over 13 minutes

Day 3 (easy)
A,Clarke n1 and 3
Concones
Repertoire (45m)
Vamp over 13 m

And my 4 components
1) Breathe! (from bottom, open throat)
2) Center (tongue level, saying ''m'')
3) support (from bottom, push through the horn)
4) Comfort (manage rest/play, corners, angle of horn, posture, pressure)

I feel my playing and inconsistency do not represent how hard and smart I am trying to work.
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coraltrpt
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Joined: 18 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my own experience: I had to go through two embouchure changes and dealt with a lot of frustration/pain. I know that your situation is a little different, but what got me through that period was doing exercise 1-4 of the buzzing book by Thomson everyday. Not overblowing and trying to center everything. This was prescribed by my college teacher.

Doing that everyday started to make me feel better, and was a little bit like a meditation routine. It certainly won't work for everyone, but I found a lot of comfort in that. Maybe try that for a couple weeks? The recordings are free on the Editions-BIM website.
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Andy Del
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 2660
Location: sunny Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without seeing ands hearing you, no one here has the faintest cue as to the physical issues you are describing.

BUT, the way the post is written gives a very strong clue that this is not something about the way you are playing, but the way you are thinking. The post is one long explosion of emotive writing, and this, if translated into practice, will get one nowhere rather fast.

Instead of being frustrated with the horn, with the challenges and problems it presents there needs to be another way. My personal thought is that you need to stop, look at the issue that occurs and work on that in a positive manner.

There is a saying about life being a journey, not destination. I feel the same about playing the beast, it is a journey and we are never at the final stop where all is fine and dandy. Rather the opposite. If you spend some time listening to great players speak about playing, they seem to come from this very same point of view. The Monster Oils interviews are a great place to begin...

cheers

Andy
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Heim
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you really want to know, post a video.
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dstpt
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1272

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited.

Last edited by dstpt on Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:56 am; edited 3 times in total
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Betelgeuse215
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Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 186

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Working out of the Thompson Buzzing Book might help your situation
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Seymor B Fudd
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Joined: 17 Oct 2015
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Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Sudden amnesia Reply with quote

Cola wrote:
I suddently forgot how to play. I've had GREAT weeks in may-june, then all of a sudden I forgot everything. My embouchure. What the f? People usually say to rest and re-start with long tones. I've been doing this THE WHOLE WEEK so stop it with your usual ''play softer, long tones, easy stuff'' blabla, because I've done EVERYTHING I had to do to play right. I rest, I think about the important stuff when I play, but why did I lose my grip and why is it NOT coming back? How can I get out of this hell, I could blow all my range up to a high C (not the greatest, but for someone who went through all kind of changes like me, it's ok I guess). Now I'm struggling to play a Frickin' MIDDLE C at ppp in my long tones. WHY?\!!!!@!?%? I have so many problems with the horn. My teacher says it's all good and will come back, but it doesn't. I feel that at any point in my life, I'll never know when I play at my 100%% and it literaly took its toll on my mental health, but the more i try to outsmart the horn, understand it, experiment with techniques and routines (I am very obsessive about balanced, strict routine), the more I have ups and downs. I've had an embouchure change, but it feels like it's not settled. I did it more than a year ago, it should be dealt with!!!!! WHY AM I CURSED TO BLOW THROUGH THE HORN AND NEVER KNOW WHAT HAPPENS, even though I do everything to make things consistent?

Here's my routine, if you think there's an issue

David zauder's trumpet method (A,B,C sections), including a warm-up

Day 1 (med)
AB
Clarke n2
repertoire (30 m. max)
Vamp over 13 minutes of a progression (blocks of 3-4 mins.)

Day 2 (hard)
AC
Lick in 12 keys
Vamp over 13 minutes

Day 3 (easy)
A,Clarke n1 and 3
Concones
Repertoire (45m)
Vamp over 13 m

And my 4 components
1) Breathe! (from bottom, open throat)
2) Center (tongue level, saying ''m'')
3) support (from bottom, push through the horn)
4) Comfort (manage rest/play, corners, angle of horn, posture, pressure)

I feel my playing and inconsistency do not represent how hard and smart I am trying to work.




I agree with Andy D; however I wouldn´t exclude overuse syndrom.... much because I experienced the same thing couple of years ago - at the end barely a faint middle C popped out. All of which affected me a lot on the emotional level. What was happening? Playing life over etc.
The cure was not rest but reinstalling the embouchure and for that I did need help - probably you do too. Think it over- as Andy recommends!
There is a life ahead of you
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Cola
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Joined: 30 Jan 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Alma, Quebec

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[/img]
Link
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Cola
Regular Member


Joined: 30 Jan 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Alma, Quebec

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[youtube]https://youtu.be/Ats0E4-CPww

Here's a 3 in 1 exercice, sorry for mistakes and rush, I had to do this quick but it kinda shows some common mistakes I guess. You may not hear it but I AM breathing[/youtube][/b]
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oxleyk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 4178

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO, your mouthpiece is too far off-center which is causing you to pinch the higher notes. In fact, we can see you pinching on the left side. I say this from my own experience. Many of us play off-center but I feel that you are overdoing it.

Also, you're playing the scale and arpeggio exercises way too fast. Slow down until you learn them. If you practice slop you learn slop.
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Cola
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Joined: 30 Jan 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Alma, Quebec

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oxleyk wrote:
IMO, your mouthpiece is too far off-center which is causing you to pinch the higher notes. In fact, we can see you pinching on the left side. I say this from my own experience. Many of us play off-center but I feel that you are overdoing it.

Also, you're playing the scale and arpeggio exercises way too fast. Slow down until you learn them. If you practice slop you learn slop.


1) I have tried very hard to play in center but my teeth don't help. I am working on my angles to solve this.
2) sorry for that,as I said i was in a rush and nervous (I absolutely hate playing to trumpet players) I am known to be a perfectionist otherwise, so don't worry about this.
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EdMann
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Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 2481
Location: The Big Valley

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I may, you sound a bit like I used to sound as a newbie. You are playing too loud, plainly. Use a metronome and get focused. Nothing helped me more than those two items: metronome and soft practicing. If the notes aren't speaking softly, they won't sound good with more air/volume. It may necessitate that you start with your chops closer together. Just a suggestion!

ed
Bach dude
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oxleyk
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, any dental interference is not obvious in the videos. Carry on.
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Cola
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Joined: 30 Jan 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Alma, Quebec

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EdMann wrote:
If I may, you sound a bit like I used to sound as a newbie. You are playing too loud, plainly. Use a metronome and get focused. Nothing helped me more than those two items: metronome and soft practicing. If the notes aren't speaking softly, they won't sound good with more air/volume. It may necessitate that you start with your chops closer together. Just a suggestion!

ed
Bach dude


I have been told that I play way too soft most of the time. Thanks for the condescending comment, It makes me want to stab myself out of anger.
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EdMann
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Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So sorry. I had no reason or intention to condescend you. Yet another reason, in over 2000 posts here, that I have made maybe 5 playing suggestions over the years. It was nothing more than a suggestion, just based on what I heard. Please don't stab yourself! I have enough guilt!

Wishing you well. There's not much worse than not getting along with our chosen instrument. I have many mouthpieces lodged in the walls of my house to prove it!

ed
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8910
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had several times in my years playing where things were going along fine then I ran into a wall and I lost a lot of ground. In my case there was no way my facility was going to come back because I had developed some habits that were ultimately faulty and not sustainable. The more I played, the worse I got. Each time I had to get back with my teacher who could identify where I got off on the wrong path, reset to a more rudimentary routine and start rebuilding. Don't' be discouraged, the more trials that end in error you get behind you the more likely you are to find a better path.

I'm no pro but from the video it does seem that you're compensating for some significant dental issues. Even your speech seems to be affected. Are you setting up in a high spot or a low spot?

Also, it seems to me that you're using up a good deal of lip compression even playing in the staff which could be limiting your ability to go higher. I know you mentioned about folks saying you don't play loud enough, but I'd suggest that a daily amount of quiet playing, sometimes with only air attacks can help you establish a closer and more relaxed set in the lower and mid registers. That could help.
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Cola,

If we were reviewing your playing in person, I'd ask you to slow down your playing and take a bit more time between each attempt. I felt like you were hammering away, impatient, and getting frustrated with yourself.

You have some skills, but I think your impatience is messing you up. Why not try a more deliberative approach? Visualize what you're about to play. Clear your mind--don't let your inner voice nag you about your playing. Think about what you're about to play, what it should feel like and sound like. Then play a short segment.

Once you've finished that segment, rest for a moment and think about how you did. Don't nag yourself. Be calm, and think of one thing you want to do better next time. Visualize it. Clear your mind, and try again. I think that, with a more deliberative, calm, thoughtful approach, you'll start to make progress again. Good luck.
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting clip. You made it to show people your problems, hence, you have problems in the clip... do you get my drift? Play to be good, not show what is wrong.

What I do notice.
- You don't really breathe, it is very shallow. Work on your breathing a lot more than you think you do. You may disagree.
- You use a mute? Get rid of it immediately. you may disagree.
- The mistakes, such as in your Ab major phrase was such you didn't appear to be conscious of what you were going to play, just going through the motions, expecting it to not work. A little later, it got to the point you could only get a note or so out. This is where you must slow down, go back to basics and not worry about the mistake, but playing well.
- you comment you are not moving anything. But, you are making a huge amount of pivoting movement both going upstream as you go higher and off to the left. You need to slow down and look in a mirror or watch this video of yourself playing RELLY closely. If one of my students were doing this - they would be encouraged to learn what it feels like, looks like and how it goes NOT moving this way, but relying on air speed tongue arch (in syllables) and some lip muscle use.

That's all rather blunt. It is time to go have a serious talk to tour teacher, or find a better one. The routine you are relying on is clearly not working, mostly due to your state of mind, but also possibly it isn't what you need to right now.

Good luck.

Andy
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stumac
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 to Andy's comments, I see your shoulders rising when you inhale and drop when you start to play, keep your shoulders still and breath deeper relaxed from lower down, the best way I can describe.

Search the forum for the 19/30s exercise, this has helped me immensely in my endurance and range, played softly and in one breath for each note, once mastered descending then try ascending, much more difficult to keep relaxed.

Read John Mohan's last post in lung capacity thread in Fundamentals.

Regards, Stuart.
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deleted_user_680e93b
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out this website:

http://www.embouchures.com/embouchurerehabexcerpt.html

Not sure if overuse is the issue, but the way you describe it, it sounds very similar to something that i experienced years ago, this is what put me back.

good luck

tom
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