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Ed Kennedy
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Joined: 15 Jan 2005
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 Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| razeontherock wrote: | | Leon Merian pretty much did that and he did "ok" lol |
Leon played a Getzen Eterna 700, considered a step-up, with a few tweaks and mods. He could definitely light up a room. I think the 700 was closer to the original Severinson than the 900 of that time. The fact is that he could do it with any horn and-or mouthpiece, something he demonstrated when doing high school clinics. |
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zaferis
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
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Location: Beavercreek, OH
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| khedger wrote: | | zaferis wrote: | Not to highjack the OP's intent.. another thought. I'll let my jerky trumpet player out a little - appologies.
If I hire you, or work with you cosistently, and you show up with an obviously "student model", "old-shcool", "beater" of a instrument, I'm probably going to pay attention and be mindlful of what you sound like/play like. You'd better sound like Gabriel himself. Right or wrong, my impression is going to be that you really don't care.
If you're using it in the local community band, that's another thing... (I'll probably still roll my eyes..) |
So you have different standards for players depending on how impressed you are with their horn? Really? |
No! same standards, but red flags will go up-you've made an impression, now I'm that much more focussed on you.
Expectations=you're a pro showing up to a gig with something OTHER than what would be expected. A Pro using a Student model instrument.
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| zaferis wrote: | No! same standards, but red flags will go up-you've made an impression, now I'm that much more focussed on you.
Expectations=you're a pro showing up to a gig with something OTHER than what would be expected. A Pro using a Student model instrument. |
To me, that would be some indication of how seriously you take playing. You don't have to have a shiny horn, or a new horn, or a Bach Strad, but it you show up at a real gig with a TR300, I'm going to wonder...
Now, my mentally raised eyebrow can easily be assuaged with excellent playing.
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boog
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Joined: 04 Jun 2014
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Crazy Finn"] | zaferis wrote: | | it you show up at a real gig with a TR300, I'm going to wonder... |
Oh Mercy, after a few years of not playing (back quite a while ago), I got a gig with a big band and needed a Bb. I ended up with one of those dogs...traded it off...thought it would do, because after all, it had a first valve slide saddle!  |
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blbaumgarn
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: professional playing a student trumpet |
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Supposedly, during some of his harder up days, Chet Baker landed on a Getzen Capri and used that for a while. I imagine Chet would have his signature sound on any ax.
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TKSop
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1735
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| khedger wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | Many student horns are made without the first and third tuning aids. This means that the player will have to lip notes out of the slot to be in tune on some notes. Playing out of the slot often results in a change in tone or timbre. |
I've never used the first or third tuning slides. I've always used my chops to compensate. It always seemed much more natural for me to do it that way. And yes, my intonation is very good. |
Don't think of them as tuning slides - think of them as resonance slides.
The question isn't whether you can play in tune without them, it's whether you can play with more resonance with them - and if you're lipping significant amounts, you'll lose resonance whether the tuner approves or not. |
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Robert P
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| zaferis wrote: | | khedger wrote: | | zaferis wrote: | | Not to highjack the OP's intent.. another thought. I'll let my jerky trumpet player out a little |
So you have different standards for players depending on how impressed you are with their horn? Really? |
No! same standards |
Really? You said your prejudice won't be satisfied unless they play like Gabriel himself. Do *you* play like Gabriel himself?
How would you have come to hire someone if it weren't already established they can play?
| Quote: | | but red flags will go up-you've made an impression, now I'm that much more focussed on you. |
So you won't be surprised if when you make your peevish bias known the guy (or gal) lets their inner jerky trumpet player out, tells you to sod off and walks.
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plankowner110
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Back to poster's original question:
I saw the Lionel Hampton Big Band LIVE thirty-five years ago and the incredible lead trumpeter was playing an Olds Ambassador. Sorry I can't remember his name, but I met him and he had an Ambassador in his hand! Just proves it's the player and not the horn!
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https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763 |
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zaferis
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Location: Beavercreek, OH
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| plankowner110 wrote: | Back to poster's original question:
I saw the Lionel Hampton Big Band LIVE thirty-five years ago and the incredible lead trumpeter was playing an Olds Ambassador. Sorry I can't remember his name, but I met him and he had an Ambassador in his hand! Just proves it's the player and not the horn! |
Well.. not necessarily. I'm sure he was/is a monster player, but Olds was known for making "pro" line horns until the late 60's when they shifted the focus to a mass produced "student" line.. I'm not sure when the manufacturing of said "student" line trumpets started. My impression is that during the 20's 30's, 40's, 50's "trumpets" were made, mass production hadn't taken over.
Additionally, you do realize that when said player is using a "named" instrument, chances are it's a custom designed/tweeked instrument, most lilely NOT the production trumpet that you or I can buy off the sales floor.
I had the opportunity in the early 80's to play a couple notes CT's Flugelhorn.. nothing like it, buttery smooth and the valves were light and fast. Not the isntrument that one can buy at McTrumpets-R-Us.
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bike&ed
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| I’m only a semi-pro, but I do most of my cover band work, and a lot of theatre work (all paid gigs) using a Yamaha 2330SII student cornet. I’ve owned and played hundreds of pro-level trumpets & cornets, and this horn just works the best overall (for me) in these settings. |
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Pete
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Location: Western Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| bike&ed wrote: | | I’m only a semi-pro, but I do most of my cover band work, and a lot of theatre work (all paid gigs) using a Yamaha 2330SII student cornet. I’ve owned and played hundreds of pro-level trumpets & cornets, and this horn just works the best overall (for me) in these settings. |
I own one of these too. It's a great horn! The equipment fantasy for some is interesting to say the least.
Pete |
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Steve A
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| Robert P wrote: | | zaferis wrote: | | khedger wrote: | | zaferis wrote: | | Not to highjack the OP's intent.. another thought. I'll let my jerky trumpet player out a little |
So you have different standards for players depending on how impressed you are with their horn? Really? |
No! same standards |
Really? You said your prejudice won't be satisfied unless they play like Gabriel himself. Do *you* play like Gabriel himself?
How would you have come to hire someone if it weren't already established they can play?
| Quote: | | but red flags will go up-you've made an impression, now I'm that much more focussed on you. |
So you won't be surprised if when you make your peevish bias known the guy (or gal) lets their inner jerky trumpet player out, tells you to sod off and walks. |
Respectfully, I think what zaferis is saying is pretty reasonable, and in line with most professional expectations I would envision running into. If you show up to play 2nd on the Christmas Oratorio with a student Bb, you're going to raise some eyebrows. If you do an absolutely divine job, people will probably still find it strange, but let the results speak for themselves. If, however, you've brought inappropriate tools to the workplace, and others suffer because of it, you should expect more flak than if you respected standard practices, but just happened to have a bad day. |
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cheiden
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:56 am Post subject: |
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I've seen pro use student horns, frankenhorns, and horns that just look beat to death. I always have to tame my inner equipment junky and try let my ears alone tell me how successfully that gear works for them. Of course I've also seen guys play state-of-the-art or new gimmicky stuff sometimes with far less success.
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Pete
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Location: Western Massachusetts
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: | | I've seen pro use student horns, frankenhorns, and horns that just look beat to death. I always have to tame my inner equipment junky and try let my ears alone tell me how successfully that gear works for them. Of course I've also seen guys play state-of-the-art or new gimmicky stuff sometimes with far less success. |
+1
Pete |
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Sean_E
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Joined: 15 May 2018
Posts: 13
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Well this post definitely changed from my original intention. I have never been asked what "level" my trumpet was by a band leader. I've been asked how old it is several times... According to something I read many moons ago, it is almost identical as the Mendez Pro horn.. metal type thickness Bell lead pipe everything. Something about the case and one other item was different otherwise identical trumpets. There are plenty of videos of pro players playing plastic trumpets and making them sound good.
why anyone would care what level horn you are playing is unbelievable to me LOL if it sounds good and you like it then what does it matter? For me it just sounds like somebody that's upset they spent a lot of money on a horn and can't play it.
Back to my original question, anyone else playing a student horn? LOL
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OndraJ
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Andy Haderer from Austria is Yamaha Artist.
He plays lead in the WDR BigBand and is professor for jazz trumpet at the university of Köln.
His weapon of choice is the YTR 3335.
(before he played a YTR 9335 CHS, and before a Schilke B1). |
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Tony Scodwell
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:15 am Post subject: Pros using "student" horns |
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Armando Ghitalla sounded fantastic on his Getzen Capri C trumpet. Red Rodney sounded pretty good on his student Blessing. Chet Baker played many horns depending on what he was able to borrow at the time and sounded like Chet on all of them. In the case of the earlier Getzen Capri models, I understood they were the same components as the Eterna's with less hand finishing. My Capri cornet was chosen over many so called "top line" pro horns. Just check out the current Carol Brass line of quite inexpensive horns and see what's available today at fantastic prices.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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ljazztrm
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Find an old Getzen Capri, the ones with the first valve triggers. They are awesome horns! Best, Lex
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jimspeedjae
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Never had a problem with someone turning up on the gig with a dodgy old horn, "student" model or otherwise if they can play. And actually, most of the time (not many) someone turned up with a beater, they could... The main exception being a collector I know who turns up to brass bands with his 1880's compensating cornet that has more holes than Blackburn, Lancashire. But at least he turns up to his level of band, which isn't high. Nightmare to play in tune with though.
Had lots of problems with the non-playing-(insert generic expletive here) who turns up with his shiny new Strad, Xeno, Wild Thing or other "pro" horn at gigs they have got because of their shiny box of toys.
I find a good marker is when they get their mutes out...shiny new mutes and none of the corks are filed.
Apologies for the slight digression...back on track, I know a couple of pros that play cheapo chinese flugels. And sound good on them. |
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Manuel de los Campos
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| khedger wrote: |
I've never used the first or third tuning slides. I've always used my chops to compensate. It always seemed much more natural for me to do it that way. And yes, my intonation is very good. |
Good for you and I don't believe you unless you play only above the staff
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