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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:12 am Post subject: Quote from Arturo on Facebook: |
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Arturo Sandoval wrote: | I wish I could use the trumpet precisely like a piano, to have access and control of all the 88 notes, they are all good. A good note is always great when it played at the right moment, in tune, with excellent sound and plenty of souls.
My goal has been all my life how to achieve an excellent fat sound.
It always bothers me when trumpeters asked me about "how can I play high"? But nobody ever asked me how to play pretty. |
_________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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LSOfanboy Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2018 Posts: 347
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Certainly not trying to ruffle any feathers, and perhaps it isn't wise to comment, but I personally don't agree with Arturo in this instance. There are lots of other players who play very beautifully (arguably more beautifully than Arturo) but very few players who are able to produce the exceptional range that Arturo can.
What is more, having listened to many many hours of Arturo on youtube and CD (he has always been an idol of mine) I have to say that, in the vast majority of cases, he always finds a space in his improvised solo to demonstrate his exceptional range, in the best way; it is a part of his musical personality. However, if you're going to show it off (which I totally support!) then don't be surprised when players ask you how to do it, and don't chastise them for asking about one of your unique qualities. It would be like Chris Martin saying he is irritated that people ask him about production and how to play 'With Malice Towards None' all the time. Its an inevitable consequence of achieving so highly in any such field.
Needless to say, Arturo has had an outstanding career and continues to be a huge inspiration to myself and countless other trumpet players.
Thanks
Edit: this post is in reference to the final sentence of the quote. Arturo has made the same point before in some of his Sandoval Institute interviews that are on youtube. That is the only point of the quote I personally do not agree with. Thanks |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:16 am Post subject: |
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It's great for all of us to know that you disagree, thanks for that information.
But in the last (two) sentence(s) Arturo: says: "It always bothers me when trumpeters asked me about "how can I play high? But nobody ever asked me how to play pretty".
The problem is that both statements are presented as facts and you can only disagree if you have more knowledge of these facts than mr. Sandoval himself. |
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LSOfanboy Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2018 Posts: 347
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:20 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | 'It's great for all of us to know that you disagree, thanks for that information.
But in the last (two) sentence(s) Arturo: says: "It always bothers me when trumpeters asked me about "how can I play high? But nobody ever asked me how to play pretty".
The problem is that both statements are presented as facts and you can only disagree if you have more knowledge of these facts than mr. Sandoval himself.' |
Hi,
First of all, thank you for your response.
I think your opening statement is a little unnecessary; this is, after all, a forum for discussion and we are all entitled to our own opinions. The Arturo quote was posted to enable group reflection and debate. My post was made with the upmost sincerity and respect for Arturo (who, I stress again, is a long time hero of mine) and, in my opinion, did not warrant an immediate sarcastic response.
Secondly, I disagree with you that they are facts, it is Arturo's opinion! I will freely acknowledge that I do not have the incredible experience or success that Mr Sandoval has, and neither do I claim to! But this does not mean I cannot have an opinion on comments made by him.
Interestingly enough, Tom Hooten (another tremendous player and hero of mine) was in the UK recently with the LA Phil and spoke in a masterclass about his recent interview with Sandoval (its on youtube). Arturo had brought up this very point (I'm not sure whether it was on camera or off) and Hooten seemed to voice a similar opinion to my own; that Arturo's virtually unique abilities in the upper register invite interest and that it is not a surprise that trumpet players want to question Arturo on how he achieves it.
Of course, Tom is a huge fan of Arturo and none of this was said as criticism, simply as yet another trumpet player who is absolutely blown away by Arturo's abilities (as am I).
I hope that everything I have said is reasonable and continues to encourage constructive discussion, I have seen too many threads spiral into pointless bickering and am keen to avoid the same happening here. Let's not forget, we are all unanimous in our admiration for Mr. Sandoval and wish him, and each other, every success.
Thanks |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9007 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:18 am Post subject: |
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He's just making a point that playing with a good sound and feeling shouldn't be ignored. Jeez. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
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Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Arturo posts here, send him a PM and take it up with him. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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LSOfanboy Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2018 Posts: 347
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hi all,
Obviously I have made a mistake here and I apologise to anyone and everyone who may feel my words were unnecessary.
A quote from Arturo (for a final time; one of my true heroes) was posted and contained a small piece of opinion I have often heard repeated by him. I thought it would be an interesting point of discussion to try and outline the reason I think so many people ask him about that subject. It was not in any way at all intended to be critical towards Mr. Sandoval and I feel like I went to great lengths to outline my massive respect for the man.
I must admit I have been disappointed by the response here; I had hoped to start a discussion celebrating Arturo's exemplary abilities and stellar career. However, I accept that I may have appeared to come from a negative angle (which was not the intention) and recognise that this was an error on my part.
Finally, to answer the suggestion that I should 'PM Sandoval and tell him directly' - absolutely not. Arturo is a busy professional trumpet player still engaged in a wonderful career, he has no need to hear my opinions and, if I were to contact him directly, it would be to tell him what an inspiration he has been and ask for a lesson. The point I raised here was a small one and I only intended to raise some discussion. Nothing more.
I hope this settles any misgivings about my original post.
Thanks |
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roccotrumpetsiffredi Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2015 Posts: 169
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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You want high notes play the flute then!
To play the trumpet like a flute:) |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:08 am Post subject: |
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roccotrumpetsiffredi wrote: | You want high notes play the flute then!
To play the trumpet like a flute:) |
I grew up with a flute playing older Sister and always thought I should be able to have that much dexterity on a trumpet. It hasn't happened yet, lol.
Arturo's a great guy but he has freely admitted to me in several PMs that his English isn't so good. Nor is my Spanish what it was when I was the only English speaking worker at my place of employment in 1981. I wonder if his phrase "it always bothers me" is one of those things that doesn't translate so well, but has a different connotation in his Mother tongue?
I do strive to get Arturo's sound, and consider it an excellent sound model. Specifically, I used his recording of the Coloratura from his Evolution CD for many years, listening to it intently before beginning to practice. I'll do that again today! |
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fraserhutch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 2548 Location: Oakville, ON Canada
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:36 am Post subject: |
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We all want recognition for those things we work hardest on..... _________________ Schilke B1
Callet Jazz
Scodwell Standard Bb
Roger Ingram 1600is
Wild Thing Flugel
Dillon Rotary Picc.
GR and Curry Mouthpieces |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:05 am Post subject: |
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I strongly suspect Arturo's comment was a sad comment on the fact that trumpet players focus too much on playing high and not enough on playing pretty.
I've spent a little time on the phone with him as well as exchanged a few messages. IME/IMO his playing ability is only exceeded by his humble attitude and caring personality. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Oh my.
I just checked back on this thread.
Y'all, I just thought it was a neat quote from Arturo.
We can all fall into the trap of focusing on range (or some other technical deficiency we might have) and forget all about the fact we are supposed to be playing pretty music that people want to hear.
Anyway, carry on, and lighten up! _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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beagle Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 419 Location: Vienna, Austria
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:39 am Post subject: |
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When I switched from guitar to trumpet years ago, I was surprised at first at how so many trumpet players were so obsessed with range. I couldn't understand it because the guitarists I knew were far more obsessed with speed. After all, range on the guitar is comparatively easy, whereas the layout of the guitar and the coordination required between both hands makes it quite difficult to play fast.
Really it seems that guitar players are impressed by fast playing because it's hard to do on their instrument, while trumpet players are impressed by high notes for the same reason. Because of my guitar-playing heritage, speed still impresses me more than range.
Speed and range also have the advantage that they are easy to measure so that you can observe your progress and compare yourself to others. It's natural to want to be able to do these hard things, and neglect other things that are just as (or perhaps even more) important. Playing pretty is just as difficult, but much harder to quantify. It requires more artistic input, rather than just mechanical skill.
It's very hard to get away from this mentality. We do need both speed and high notes to some extent. There are great players who rarely use them and others who have built these skills into their style to great effect, but they would not be great players if they could not also play beautiful melodies with great feeling. The high and fast notes give a general tone of excitement, but it can sound mechanical if it is overdone. It is usually the slower melodic passages that will move people the most. Probably because they are easier to absorb and process, these are the passages that your audience will remember afterwards. _________________ Schagerl Sig. James Morrison
Selmer Paris Chorus 80J |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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beagle wrote: | When I switched from guitar to trumpet years ago, I was surprised at first at how so many trumpet players were so obsessed with range. I couldn't understand it because the guitarists I knew were far more obsessed with speed. After all, range on the guitar is comparatively easy, whereas the layout of the guitar and the coordination required between both hands makes it quite difficult to play fast. |
Arguably it's as hard or harder to wrangle just three buttons and coordinate the articulation and all the internal adjustments needed to traverse the registers quickly on a horn.
Quote: | Speed and range also have the advantage that they are easy to measure so that you can observe your progress and compare yourself to others. It's natural to want to be able to do these hard things, and neglect other things that are just as (or perhaps even more) important. Playing pretty is just as difficult, but much harder to quantify. It requires more artistic input, rather than just mechanical skill. |
Agreed. In my life I've found a somewhat vague term to describe instrumentalists who have found their voice. Before players reach that state they often come across as mechanical.
Quote: | It is usually the slower melodic passages that will move people the most. Probably because they are easier to absorb and process, these are the passages that your audience will remember afterwards. |
I did a concert with a community college that included something hard, I think it might have been Eric Whitacre's Equis. On that same program we also played Martin Lauridsen's O Magnum Mysterium. Our conductor told the group, as much as they obsess with the difficult piece, what was likely to leave the audience in awe was the slow beautiful piece. I think they were right.[/quote] _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: |
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beagle wrote: |
Really it seems that guitar players are impressed by fast playing because it's hard to do on their instrument, while trumpet players are impressed by high notes for the same reason. Because of my guitar-playing heritage, speed still impresses me more than range.
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It's not that difficult:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAD63neLS5s |
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jazz_trpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2001 Posts: 5734 Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:19 am Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: | Arguably it's as hard or harder to wrangle just three buttons and coordinate the articulation and all the internal adjustments needed to traverse the registers quickly on a horn. |
You can pretty much play the highest (nonharmonic) note on a guitar (and many other instruments) when you first encounter them, if you know the fingering/hand position/etc.
Most non-trumpet players who explore that area discover (quicker than trumpet players) that once you're up in that area of the instrument, there's no guarantee you're going to know how to get down. _________________ Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions! |
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beagle Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 419 Location: Vienna, Austria
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:21 am Post subject: |
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delano wrote: | beagle wrote: |
Really it seems that guitar players are impressed by fast playing because it's hard to do on their instrument, while trumpet players are impressed by high notes for the same reason. Because of my guitar-playing heritage, speed still impresses me more than range.
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It's not that difficult:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAD63neLS5s |
This is Jimmy Rosenberg and not a mere mortal. It's like showing a video of James Morrison and saying its not that difficult to play high on trumpet!
By the way, I only said it is comparatively difficult to play fast! (although once you have to skip strings or do big stretches it is very hard). Range on the guitar, however is fairly trivial. The only problem is that the frets get closer together as you go up and the body of the guitar gets in the way if you don't have a cutaway. _________________ Schagerl Sig. James Morrison
Selmer Paris Chorus 80J |
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Blackquill Regular Member
Joined: 03 May 2018 Posts: 74 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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What I'm wondering is how Arturo can play pedal notes with beautiful tone, even the "false" ones. I've never heard what I heard Arturo do in that regard until I heard him live in a concert like a year ago. Do you think certain trumpet models make this easier to do? _________________ Trumpet is for extroverts only... no, wait... Trumpet is also for introverts who need an avenue for extrovertism! |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Blackquill wrote: | What I'm wondering is how Arturo can play pedal notes with beautiful tone, even the "false" ones. I've never heard what I heard Arturo do in that regard until I heard him live in a concert like a year ago. Do you think certain trumpet models make this easier to do? |
Yeah, it's totally about the trumpet, and in fact I play the same horn Arturo does and so my pedals sound exactly the same -- not! Well, I do play the same horn, but pretty much nothing I do is as good as he does. ANd he practices them quite a bit -- he has talked about it in some posts on TH, somewhere...
To be fair, some combinations may make pedals easier, just as some make the high range easier, but the only thing I've found easy to play pedals on is my flugelhorn.
Cue John Mohan for the CG approach... _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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