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Applying critical thinking to understanding embouchure.



 
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Lionel
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:18 am    Post subject: Applying critical thinking to understanding embouchure. Reply with quote

From what I understand about critical thinking it is less a matter of thinking and analyzing data than it is about finding the best questions to ask. Granted critical thinking does involve making choices. Deciding the best choice of questions is in and of itself a form of thinking. That said?

We can hardly depend upon our analysis if we ask the wrong question(s). As per embouchure, I developed a very puzzling question more than forty years ago. Hopefuly I can remain brief. Here goes my explanation,

Back in the early 1970's my own sister found herself in a job answering phones in a medical clinic which included both MD's and dentists. To hers and my own great surprise one of my sister's co-workers described a new dental patient undergoing an "emergency bridge rebuild" as "a famous Canadian Jazz trumpet player". No foolin! Maynard himself had strolled into a New England dental office!

My sister recognized the man by name because she knew that I had collected nearly all of his records.

Well immediately my thought was, "Is the poor guy ever going to be able to play his trumpet again"? That was my million dollar question. That and a fairly obvious one too I think. At least as it seemed to me at the time. I felt a great concern for Maynard. Because I inwardly knew just how important my own teeth were in controlling my embouchure.

Well according to my sources and various entertainment schedule lists available back in the day? Ferguson not only returned to playing his trumpet but never even missed a gig! I have this on reliable authority too folks! Both from other witnesses as well as the medical staffers say so. People I've questioned over the years since. It was at this point where I immediately decided that there was clearly something much different about Maynard's embouchure and it's usage than there was/is with my own chops. As the idea of having my own upper teeth removed and replaced with a bridge seemed completely impossible. To my own way of playing the horn.

"This Maynard fellow" I said to myself. "He's one amazing freak"! Again, the idea of him playing a gig, not even missing a beat let alone one night? That and remaining able to blow techinical high note phrases so well?? Well it really got me thinking. Thus my next question, one I continued pondering the next 44 years up until today was,

"How does my own embouchure usage differ from the big man's chops"?

I couldn't answer the question but at least I did have the question. And without good questions? Effective analysis is impossible. And while I couldn't answer that question it did yet lead me to another good query. Which is,

"Assuming that I can discover the reason why Maynard wasn't encumbered by this seemingly serious operation, is there a way upon which I too could adapt and adopt a similar set of chops"? Another pretty good question I thought. And again it largely remained unanswered. At least up until recently.

But then Time started taking it's toll upon my own body. I turned 63 last Spring. Soon after my most recent birthday my own dentist informed me that indeed one of my upper, front incisors was completely dead and would soon break off.

Saddened a good deal I just decided to persevere regardless. Besides as noted elsewhere on this forum I had already begun forming a wholly new embouchure starting just last Christmas. Maybe, I thought, my new embouchure would be less affected by tooth loss. Only time would tell of course. I tried to cheer my spirits by reminding myself that,

A. Not only was my new embouchure developing well but,

B. I still could play trombone! Not the best possibility but I'm an optimist. At least there seemed to be choices.

Then about ten days ago and while brushig my teeth? My right front, upper incisor broke off at the base. And with it's loss?

Everything above G top of the staff disappeared with it? My once powerful upper register, "Good to high G and then some" I always described it? Gone. Nothing! Not even a measly high C.

However? My new, somewhat experimental embouchure wasn't affected at all!!! I felt overjoyed. Shucks I can still play I thought! Not the old but the new way! Previously I had suspected this could happen however there was no telling what the heck would happen until I actually lost my tooth.

Of course I will be seeing my dentist soon. I have a pretty good insurance plan. And it's always possible that through implants I could return to my former method.
However as mentioned, my new embouchure just isn't affected by the loss of a main front tooth. And? The new way plays easier. It's more efficient.

As for critical thinking? I continue to apply it. That and am damned glad that I started this new chop system last December.

I could continue to express my analysis of what happened. Both with my own chops and the reported seeming miracle which occurred in that dental office where my sister once was employed. However my efforts at critical thinking continue to develop more questions themselves. At present? More questions than answers.. Frankly I don't feel comfortable explaining what is going on in my chops. While I feel certain that I'm on the proper course? I feel a little frustrated about explaining it. For now anyway.

This is my "inside job". Perhaps one day I will feel more comfortable at exlaining this condition. However all that I really feel obliged to suggest to others is to keep at it. That?

And ask questions. Ask good questions. Especially those which seem to challenge commony held assumptions about brass playing.

PS: Thanks to a newspaper clipping I once read I actually know how Mr Ferguson's dental problems originally occurred. It's kind of a horror story but here's what the clipping read.,

Some drunk in a nightclub got crazy and smashed Maynard's trumpet right into his teeth! While he was playing!! Awful huh?

Sorry that I can not remember the specific periodical which pubished the story. All I know is that the article came from the late 1950-s or so. That and Maynard was quoted as really beating the hell out of the bastard who hurt him. And apparently from that moment on Maynard had bridgewirk in his mouth.

Thanks All!
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LSOfanboy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Amazing post! I'm delighted the new set-up allows you to continue playing!

You wrote a lot and I apologise for jumping on a small detail in the midst of so much interesting stuff, but I hope your story can act as some proof (along with a great deal else) to the naysayers who claim that dental structure has nothing to do with our individual set-up and playing. Your old set-up has been, pretty conclusively, proved to rely on your dental structure (much as my own does). There continue to be players who insist that dental structure has no bearing and hopefully any of them reading this thread may think again.

All the best to you
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Lionel
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Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 783

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LSOfanboy wrote:
Hi,

Amazing post! I'm delighted the new set-up allows you to continue playing!

You wrote a lot and I apologise for jumping on a small detail in the midst of so much interesting stuff, but I hope your story can act as some proof (along with a great deal else) to the naysayers who claim that dental structure has nothing to do with our individual set-up and playing. Your old set-up has been, pretty conclusively, proved to rely on your dental structure (much as my own does). There continue to be players who insist that dental structure has no bearing and hopefully any of them reading this thread may think again.

All the best to you



Well thank you. In fact I almost want to copy and paste your response to my O/P and delete the rest of the lengthy crap I wrote. As you've noticedI tend to write overly long topics/posts. I appreciate your patience and ability to understand my epic length post.

I found your response to be a great encapsulation of my intent in writing the topic.

But just to follow up I must be honest and include here that all is not well with myself regarding adjusting to the tooth loss and my subsequent state of mind.. To put it mildly. As all my adult life Ive worked to increase my usable range from the high G to double C and above. And met with some progress albeit less than satisfying results.

However now that my upper register is completely gone? I really miss being able just to bomb my trusty high C to F above. Even with my newer system responding? I admit to a good deal of the blues lately. As the saying goes,

"You don't know what you've got til it's gone".

But I'm not one to wallow in depression. I can still play a solid trombone on my old embouchure! The large mouthpiece covers over where my incisor is gone. I feel unemcumbered by the lost tooth.So I booked two rehearsals this coming week.

My trombone. Wow. Have owned it longer than any of my instruments. Inc all my trumpet... This t-bone was my 17th birthday gift in 1972. From my mom and brother. Both long since deceased. I always enjoyed playing trombone. Perhaps it will mend me while my new trumpet embouchure improves well enough to use publicly.
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"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!

Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980).
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lionel wrote:
LSOfanboy wrote:
Hi,

Amazing post! I'm delighted the new set-up allows you to continue playing!

You wrote a lot and I apologise for jumping on a small detail in the midst of so much interesting stuff, but I hope your story can act as some proof (along with a great deal else) to the naysayers who claim that dental structure has nothing to do with our individual set-up and playing. Your old set-up has been, pretty conclusively, proved to rely on your dental structure (much as my own does). There continue to be players who insist that dental structure has no bearing and hopefully any of them reading this thread may think again.

All the best to you


Well thank you. In fact I almost want to copy and paste your response to my O/P and delete the rest of the lengthy crap I wrote. As you've noticedI tend to write overly long topics/posts. I appreciate your patience and ability to understand my epic length post.

I found your response to be a great encapsulation of my intent in writing the topic.

But just to follow up I must be honest and include here that all is not well with myself regarding adjusting to the tooth loss and my subsequent state of mind.. To put it mildly. As all my adult life Ive worked to increase my usable range from the high G to double C and above. And met with some progress albeit less than satisfying results.

However now that my upper register is completely gone? I really miss being able just to bomb my trusty high C to F above. Even with my newer system responding? I admit to a good deal of the blues lately. As the saying goes,

"You don't know what you've got til it's gone".

But I'm not one to wallow in depression. I can still play a solid trombone on my old embouchure! The large mouthpiece covers over where my incisor is gone. I feel unemcumbered by the lost tooth.So I booked two rehearsals this coming week.

My trombone. Wow. Have owned it longer than any of my instruments. Inc all my trumpet... This t-bone was my 17th birthday gift in 1972. From my mom and brother. Both long since deceased. I always enjoyed playing trombone. Perhaps it will mend me while my new trumpet embouchure improves well enough to use publicly.


Interesting read Lionel! Makes me wonder about the functions of our teeths apart from the chewing business. As far as I understand playing without /some/ pressure is impossible. No teeth would make for chops caving in or? Being a boy I heard about Bunk Johnson - how they bought him false teeth and then....
Well trained lips and mininal pressure should make possible less pressure against the teeth but never take it completely away. Even if I´m get very very well-trained - after hards gigs always some influence on my teeth - my dentist says impossible, the teeth do not move, but the dental floss is harder to use. Restored within a day or two.
The space between the lips and the teeth also has a function in the "wave" business; no teeth - where to put the tongue; the tongue and its movement pattern - imagine a robot lawn mover - confined to restricted paths - so is our tongue from birth - suddenly no / less teeth - confusion in the tongue control department or? All of this contributes to the "echo chamber"?! More questions arise. Those who play large mouthpieces, like trombonists, euphonium, tuba players - more use of facial muscles?? Even less pressure? Lesser influence on teeth?

Sigh - I think I will return to my practice room....
_________________
Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
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Lionel
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Joined: 25 Jul 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seymor B Fudd wrote:


Interesting read Lionel! Makes me wonder about the functions of our teeths apart from the chewing business. As far as I understand playing without /some/ pressure is impossible. No teeth would make for chops caving in or? Being a boy I heard about Bunk Johnson - how they bought him false teeth and then....
Well trained lips and mininal pressure should make possible less pressure against the teeth but never take it completely away. Even if I´m get very very well-trained - after hards gigs always some influence on my teeth - my dentist says impossible, the teeth do not move, but the dental floss is harder to use. Restored within a day or two.
The space between the lips and the teeth also has a function in the "wave" business; no teeth - where to put the tongue; the tongue and its movement pattern - imagine a robot lawn mover - confined to restricted paths - so is our tongue from birth - suddenly no / less teeth - confusion in the tongue control department or? All of this contributes to the "echo chamber"?! More questions arise. Those who play large mouthpieces, like trombonists, euphonium, tuba players - more use of facial muscles?? Even less pressure? Lesser influence on teeth?

Sigh - I think I will return to my practice room....


Interesting insight. Good observations and questions all.

My first thought was to point out an observation of my own playing. The way I used to blow high notes before recent tooth loss.

Although in concert I would sometimes jam to get my highest notes. Say the high G etc? I generally wouldn't jam much around high C to F above. Not unless I really wanted a super big sound. And in fact during practice sessions I can actually blow pressureLESS tones up to double C. Most at decent volume. So on the surface onemight wonder why the heck I can't play my former way. Right? Heck I can actually blow a double C with horn on palm of hand. Like Roy Stevens system. And at least up to the high G Id get impressive volume.

The problem however is not arm pressure but with a missing incisor there is simply nothing there behind the vibrating portion of my upper lip. Being a severely receded jaw trumpet player who uses more upper lip in the piece? It absolutely must have some kind of backing behind the lip. Otherwise I sound pretty awful above the staff.

There just "ain't no there, there".

And besides even a trumpet balanced only on the palm still allows a pretty decent contact pressure on the lips/teeth. While it doesn't allow abusive pressure it can still allow some dandy high notes. And at least for my regular embouchure?

I've gotta have the backing of my right, front, upper incisor. Otherwise I suck. Hey, it's been a freakin challenge to live through this crap. Im just being honest. Not seeking sympathy at all. Just sharing my experience. Because?

"When life throws you lemons? Make lemonade".

So I play trombone only now. My "lemonade". For how long I don't know. I might just need a simple sleeve to slide over the gap in my teeth. Then I'll return to trumpet.

However with the load shared by my remaining teeth? Well at least on slide trombone my technique remains largely unaffected by my missing teeth.

I started doubling on low brass 49 years ago. Back when I was just a 15 y/old pup. As for "making lemonade"?

A couple interesting developments happened today. I'm now competing for the lead t-bone part in a decent local rehearsal band. That and the trumpets behind me are finally listening to my suggestions. Being my former peers when playing lead in their section? They never took my suggestions or advice. Strange I thought. As I don't push my ideas on anyone but these cats clearly need some help. They weren't improving which is a typical amateur trumpet player's common fault. He's usually both,

"Unteachable" and "Unlearnable". This applies to lotsa musicians too but trumpets always have the biggest egos. Nothing wrong with ego except when it gets in our way. It is then when we stagnate. We can become unteachable and unable to LEARN!!!

I'm serious as a cemetery here folks. Go to most any amateur, adult ensemble. Listen to the players. At least half of them will be making the same mistakes and playing with the same poor tone TWENTY YEARS FROM NOW!

I beg all of you. Remain teachable. Improve a little every month at least. Even if you're an old fogie like me. This is the difference between myself and most amateurs. I strive to improve every day. And play from the heart. Not the head.
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"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!

Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980).
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LSOfanboy
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Joined: 08 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seymor B Fudd wrote:

Interesting read Lionel! Makes me wonder about the functions of our teeths apart from the chewing business. As far as I understand playing without /some/ pressure is impossible. No teeth would make for chops caving in or? Being a boy I heard about Bunk Johnson - how they bought him false teeth and then....
Well trained lips and mininal pressure should make possible less pressure against the teeth but never take it completely away. Even if I´m get very very well-trained - after hards gigs always some influence on my teeth - my dentist says impossible, the teeth do not move, but the dental floss is harder to use. Restored within a day or two.
The space between the lips and the teeth also has a function in the "wave" business; no teeth - where to put the tongue; the tongue and its movement pattern - imagine a robot lawn mover - confined to restricted paths - so is our tongue from birth - suddenly no / less teeth - confusion in the tongue control department or? All of this contributes to the "echo chamber"?! More questions arise. Those who play large mouthpieces, like trombonists, euphonium, tuba players - more use of facial muscles?? Even less pressure? Lesser influence on teeth?

Sigh - I think I will return to my practice room....


Hi,

A great discussion.

In my opinion I don't think your theory is correct. The function of the teeth is not related to how much pressure one uses/doesn't use (although ye, our dental structure does provide the 'structure that our lower face is built around).

The function of the teeth in relation to playing (especially high playing) can be to provide natural channels for the air, and a natural resistance (a key component in generating compression) in our individual systems. The most obvious example is a player with a large gap between their Maxillary central incisors (top front teeth). If it is unimpeded, this allows the player (virtually always without their knowledge) to simply 'blow' whilst this natural channel, which serves to raise the air pressure in the oral cavity (and thus permits higher frequencies). Over time these players develop their ability to generate greater levels of air compression and provide a higher force to the natural tooth channel/gap (allowing them to play higher). For these players, developing range is never a massive problem, simply a case of practicing and developing 'strength'. This can often be the reason why one student develops range far more easily than another student, even if the other student is far more diligent and studious. This tooth 'channel' does not necessarily have to be between the front two teeth, nor does it have to be clearly visible to the naked eye. It simply requires an irregularity in the dental structure, which combined with a certain setting of the lips, permits the air to be channelled (and compressed) in the same manner. Benefitting from the teeth in this way also allows the player to maintain a more relaxed embouchure (as the hard work of creating resistance is already done for them (other methods also permit this, but they are not 'natural')) and this grants the player greater endurance, resonance and consistency.

Of course, high playing can be achieved through other means: most commonly the tongue arch or other suitable shaping of the oral cavity, but these are 'developed' skills rather than the natural progress of someone (usually unconsciously) benefitting from their dental structure. For instance; both Jon Faddis and Wayne Bergeron talk about being able to play double Cs all day long in their early teens. Wynton played the Brandenburg at 16 etc. Louis Dowdeswell imitating Wayne throughout school. There are players (professionals included) who have worked their whole lives and never come close to the consistency (or indeed been able to reach at all) in that register that those players displayed before even leaving school.

If, like me, you rely on your teeth to create such a 'channel', then losing a tooth would completely nullify the natural resistance created and it would be impossible (without learning a new method of playing) to generate air pressure in the way that you were able to with that particular tooth structure in place, so immediate range loss would ensue.

Please do not misinterpret my words; to be a great player requires incredible devotion and dedication. Stating that 'some players with dental irregularities' (such as myself), have a natural advantage in terms of range and endurance is not to detract from the huge effort it takes to finesse and hone one's playing and consistency. At the end of the day, having the physical set-up to bang out high Gs and double Cs doesn't automatically allow someone to have: a beautiful sound, secure and controlled attack, stylistic quality, dexterity and clean articulation. All the players I have mentioned have worked tremendously hard to be successful in their careers, and all have my greatest respect.

Many thanks

Below are a list of players you should check out, I believe they all exhibit some form of dental irregularity that helps them to have the astonishing range/endurance abilities that they possess alongside myriad other amazing facets:

-Jon Faddis (huge gap to the side of his central incisors, he clearly plays with his mouthpiece over the top of it)
-Wayne Bergeron (significant gap between his central incisors (often not noticeable under his lip))
-Louis Dowdeswell (a big overlap in his front teeth (creating a channel downwards))
-Ashlin Parker (huge gap in front teeth)
-Rashawn Ross (same gap between front teeth)

There are literally hundreds of other examples, including in the classical and symphonic fields, but often the dental formation can be more subtle than the examples I have given.

Hope this can add to the discussion and promote intelligent and logical debate.

All the best
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Seymor B Fudd
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Joined: 17 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LSOfanboy wrote:
Seymor B Fudd wrote:

Interesting read Lionel! Makes me wonder about the functions of our teeths apart from the chewing business. As far as I understand playing without /some/ pressure is impossible. No teeth would make for chops caving in or? Being a boy I heard about Bunk Johnson - how they bought him false teeth and then....
Well trained lips and mininal pressure should make possible less pressure against the teeth but never take it completely away. Even if I´m get very very well-trained - after hards gigs always some influence on my teeth - my dentist says impossible, the teeth do not move, but the dental floss is harder to use. Restored within a day or two.
The space between the lips and the teeth also has a function in the "wave" business; no teeth - where to put the tongue; the tongue and its movement pattern - imagine a robot lawn mover - confined to restricted paths - so is our tongue from birth - suddenly no / less teeth - confusion in the tongue control department or? All of this contributes to the "echo chamber"?! More questions arise. Those who play large mouthpieces, like trombonists, euphonium, tuba players - more use of facial muscles?? Even less pressure? Lesser influence on teeth?

Sigh - I think I will return to my practice room....


Hi,

A great discussion.

In my opinion I don't think your theory is correct. The function of the teeth is not related to how much pressure one uses/doesn't use (although ye, our dental structure does provide the 'structure that our lower face is built around).

The function of the teeth in relation to playing (especially high playing) can be to provide natural channels for the air, and a natural resistance (a key component in generating compression) in our individual systems. The most obvious example is a player with a large gap between their Maxillary central incisors (top front teeth). If it is unimpeded, this allows the player (virtually always without their knowledge) to simply 'blow' whilst this natural channel, which serves to raise the air pressure in the oral cavity (and thus permits higher frequencies). Over time these players develop their ability to generate greater levels of air compression and provide a higher force to the natural tooth channel/gap (allowing them to play higher). For these players, developing range is never a massive problem, simply a case of practicing and developing 'strength'. This can often be the reason why one student develops range far more easily than another student, even if the other student is far more diligent and studious. This tooth 'channel' does not necessarily have to be between the front two teeth, nor does it have to be clearly visible to the naked eye. It simply requires an irregularity in the dental structure, which combined with a certain setting of the lips, permits the air to be channelled (and compressed) in the same manner. Benefitting from the teeth in this way also allows the player to maintain a more relaxed embouchure (as the hard work of creating resistance is already done for them (other methods also permit this, but they are not 'natural')) and this grants the player greater endurance, resonance and consistency.

Of course, high playing can be achieved through other means: most commonly the tongue arch or other suitable shaping of the oral cavity, but these are 'developed' skills rather than the natural progress of someone (usually unconsciously) benefitting from their dental structure. For instance; both Jon Faddis and Wayne Bergeron talk about being able to play double Cs all day long in their early teens. Wynton played the Brandenburg at 16 etc. Louis Dowdeswell imitating Wayne throughout school. There are players (professionals included) who have worked their whole lives and never come close to the consistency (or indeed been able to reach at all) in that register that those players displayed before even leaving school.

If, like me, you rely on your teeth to create such a 'channel', then losing a tooth would completely nullify the natural resistance created and it would be impossible (without learning a new method of playing) to generate air pressure in the way that you were able to with that particular tooth structure in place, so immediate range loss would ensue.

Please do not misinterpret my words; to be a great player requires incredible devotion and dedication. Stating that 'some players with dental irregularities' (such as myself), have a natural advantage in terms of range and endurance is not to detract from the huge effort it takes to finesse and hone one's playing and consistency. At the end of the day, having the physical set-up to bang out high Gs and double Cs doesn't automatically allow someone to have: a beautiful sound, secure and controlled attack, stylistic quality, dexterity and clean articulation. All the players I have mentioned have worked tremendously hard to be successful in their careers, and all have my greatest respect.

Many thanks

Below are a list of players you should check out, I believe they all exhibit some form of dental irregularity that helps them to have the astonishing range/endurance abilities that they possess alongside myriad other amazing facets:

-Jon Faddis (huge gap to the side of his central incisors, he clearly plays with his mouthpiece over the top of it)
-Wayne Bergeron (significant gap between his central incisors (often not noticeable under his lip))
-Louis Dowdeswell (a big overlap in his front teeth (creating a channel downwards))
-Ashlin Parker (huge gap in front teeth)
-Rashawn Ross (same gap between front teeth)

There are literally hundreds of other examples, including in the classical and symphonic fields, but often the dental formation can be more subtle than the examples I have given.

Hope this can add to the discussion and promote intelligent and logical debate.

All the best


Aha! Thanks a lot! You see, I always had a knack of playing a little higher than my peers and one reason may be that my top right Maxillary inscisor has about a length 4/5 of the left one. Happened when I was a boy - mother told me always to protect my face whenever they exploded New Years Eve rockets (as I think all boys have done at some point) , so I did just that, turned my head, cracked this tooth on a cement pole, it came out through my bottom lip......stitches without any anaestetics...not very funny as I remember it. I was 13.
However I always place my mpc accordingly, a bit on the right side. But never thought this could be an advantage!
Now - you maintain that this would actually increase the air pressure! I don´t understand that - I mean a pressure builds up when no escape exists for the medium in question - a teeth-gap might be seen as a leak??
Nope - couldn´t be - the sealing is done by tongue on top lip so some kind of irregularity in the airflow? Air passing the gap increasing the speed (Venturi??)? Demanding more "lip action"? Or what (Kalijah might step in)???

Anyway - as Lionel wrote: if they throw lemons at you make lemonade - that I´ve done without really understanding - whatever is the reason.
Hmm gotta sit right down and think myself more intelligent thoughts
For now!
_________________
Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
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