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Top lip pressure for type IV



 
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elgin
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:19 pm    Post subject: Top lip pressure for type IV Reply with quote

What do you guys think about a type IV placing more pressure on the top lip than the bottom?
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SIMA
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Last edited by elgin on Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JoshMizruchi
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure Reinhardt advocated that everyone should use more pressure on the lower lip, even downstreamers. The lower lip can take more abuse than the upper. Putting more weight on the upper lip to hit your highest notes is okay, if done sparingly, but if you don't have to even do that, that's probably more ideal. Otherwise, I would say you want to try to keep more pressure on the lower lip.
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elgin
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bottom lip always swells when I play. My top lip NEVER does. In fact I suspect that for a long time I haven’t been using enough pressure on top to feel the top leg of my embouchure. (type IV only have 3 legs)

So, maybe what feels like more pressure on top is really just approaching even. Possible?
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JoshMizruchi
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a lot of factors that go into trumpet playing, and sometimes one thing can be totally right and another thing can kind of be off.

For example, a player could have a lot of the weight on the bottom lip but if their lip pucker isn't strong enough, they could have an issue. Just because one thing is right doesn't mean everything else is, too.

Things are different for everyone, even if they're the same type (I'm also a IV). Some folks may have one lip that is more sensitive than another person's. But it is true that for a IV, that a good solid grip on that upper leg is very helpful. I do think some type IVs have a tendency to place too low and that can result in a variety of pitfalls, and the lower lip swelling may be your personal reaction to it. At the same time, too much pressure on the upper lip is worse. So you kind of have to find the balance.
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It KILLS your endurance, especially if you place your mouthpiece too low.
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TrumpetMan17
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hope this helps. I’m a IV too. Doc always said that for the IV the lower lip is the anchor point and the top lip is the control point. THAT combined with any pressure on the lips must be countered with equal and opposite pressure from the embouchure has always told me to lay off pressing on the upper lip unless absolutely necessary. For me it’s a range thing. When my jaw is fully clinched and my lower teeth are in front of my upper teeth there is VERY LITTLE pressure on my upper lip. However, as I ascend above High C my “pressure”, and muscular tension, shifts to my upper lip. This yields a powerful and stable range up to High G and occasional Double C. All this without the swelling of my upper lip I used to encounter with just the pressure on the upper lip with out the corresponding muscular tension from my embouchure to counter act the pressure. Also, I have a higher than usual placement for a Type IV. More like a 60% lower lip, 40% upper lip in the cup.
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Paul

- Trumpet Student of Doc's 1964 to 1973


Last edited by TrumpetMan17 on Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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elgin
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John and Paul. I don't ever remember my upper lip swelling.
My bottom lip swells with any pressure, even when there is even pressure on the top & bottom lips while playing in the staff. I find that I need very frequent rests to get the circulation going again. It's a little better now that I have my Wedge mpc. I'm also striving to approach mpc placement "from the North" like Doc recommended. That's helping me keep the mpc from slipping down too low.

It's possible that I don't have enough pucker. I'll check that out.
Thanks guys.
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SIMA
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TrumpetMan17
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elgin, Doc used to say ( and I missed it when I was young ) that the whole point to the Pivot System was to foster the development of the “complete lip pucker”. And, that once that is achieved ALL movement of the outer embouchure on the inner embouchure is reduced to an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM. When I’ve been aware of this feeling there is very little embouchure movement from low C to high C. And, mostly tongue level movement above that. The most that changes is muscular tension. Of course, along with tongue arch, and diaphragm lift.

One question I have about your lower lip swelling.....is it the actual lips/vibration points? Or, is it on the inside where the lower lip meets the teeth? If I’ve been out of practice for a few days and then have to play a gig or rehearsal I will get a sore on the inside of my lower lip where it meets the lower teeth. After a couple days of playing that hardens up and I’m fine.
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Paul

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elgin
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul. It’s on the outside where the rim touches he lower lip. I’m actually getting a little improvement with three recent changes:
1. Wedge mouthpiece
2. Close to even pressure on both lips, but still very slightly more on bottom
3. More attention to getting the top lip engaged in the pucker. Ie, the upper lip has as much envolvement as the lower lip in maintaining the consistency of the “just touching firmness” of the aperture.
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SIMA
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