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Shipham_Player
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Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 392
Location: Somerset, UK
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 Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:07 am Post subject: French taper Flugel mouthpiece advice |
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I’m after some advice on a suitable mouthpiece for my F Besson Brevette Flugelhorn (1950’s - same as played by Art Farmer). Got it recently but didn’t come with a mouthpiece.
I’ve tried it with an HT3Jazz Trumpet mouthpiece which doesn’t fit great but the horn still sounds really good but I appreciate it should really have a properly fitting french taper Flugel mouthpiece.
Does anyone play one (or similar like a vintage Couesnon) and what piece do you use? I’ve thought of maybe a Curry 3FL or maybe try Trent Austin for a custom piece?
I’m based in the UK so limited chance to try anything before buying as not sure anyone stocks any French Taper pieces in UK.
Any advice would be appreciated thanks.
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Benson Brevette 1950 Flugel
Curry 3C Custom, Bach 3C, HT Jazz |
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Flugelnut
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:37 am Post subject: |
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If your current mouthpiece plays OK and doesn't wobble about in the mouthpipe, don't bother about getting one with a French shank.
I tried both setups on my (Kanstul) Besson Brevete and couldn't discern a difference. It's you making your sound and not the mouthpiece shank's outer form. |
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Shipham_Player
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Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| Flugelnut wrote: | If your current mouthpiece plays OK and doesn't wobble about in the mouthpipe, don't bother about getting one with a French shank.
I tried both setups on my (Kanstul) Besson Brevete and couldn't discern a difference. It's you making your sound and not the mouthpiece shank's outer form. |
Thanks for the reply. Should have said that whilst I like the sound with my HT3Jazz mouthpiece it doesn’t fit well in the shank and does wobble sometimes.
Want to be careful with the Besson as it’s nearly 70 years old and totally original so don’t want to damage it in anyway by forcing a mouthpiece that doesn’t really fit.
Thanks
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Eclipse Enigma
Benson Brevette 1950 Flugel
Curry 3C Custom, Bach 3C, HT Jazz |
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delano
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| I suppose Horntrader will make his flügelpieces in the right shank. |
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Flugelnut
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:00 am Post subject: |
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Being a player and not a collector I wouldn't hesitate to take a Morse reamer to the mouthpipe end, and make a nice seat for your current mouthpiece. You only need to ream to a depth of 10 mm max.
It wouldn't make the pipe unfit for a French shank either, |
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stephan
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Location: France
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:44 am Post subject: |
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https://www.thomann.de/gb/marcinkiewicz_bobby_shew_couesnon_flgh_m.htm
Marcinkiewicz Bobby Shew mouthpiece for flugelhorn, couesnon shank !, outside cup diameter 26,97 mm (1,062 in.), inside cup diameter 16,74 mm (0,659 in.), cup depth 15,90 mm (0,626 in.), drill venturi 4,39 mm (0,173 in.), length 72,64 mm (2,860 in.), medium round rim, silver plated, comparsion with the Bobby Shew models
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Don Herman rev2
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Joined: 03 May 2005
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Location: Monument, CO
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Mark Curry and Flip Oakes make mouthpieces in all of the standard tapers including French.
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Flugelnut
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: |
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OP: if you decide to get a French shank mouthpiece, you may want to make make sure that its cylindrical part is like a tuning slide fit in your leadpipe, otherwise IMO the eventual positive effect will not be there at all.
Just about the only way to achieve that would be to send your mouthpipe to the mouthpiece maker.
I had to sleeve a mouthpiece to make it fit, and like I mentioned before, it didn't really help. |
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delano
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| And Warburton. |
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cheiden
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| Flugelnut wrote: | Being a player and not a collector I wouldn't hesitate to take a Morse reamer to the mouthpipe end, and make a nice seat for your current mouthpiece. You only need to ream to a depth of 10 mm max.
It wouldn't make the pipe unfit for a French shank either, |
Given that it's an older model, and replacement mouthpipes may be hard to come by, I wouldn't recommend modification. I'd either try to locate a proper mouthpiece, or maybe find someone who will make/modify a replacement pipe with the desired shank.
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dershem
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Mostly a custom Marcinkiewicz, but I also have a Flip Oakes Extreme #3. both with the french shank. Plays very nicely that way.
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Halflip
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | I suppose Horntrader will make his flügelpieces in the right shank. |
Given that Steve has a write-up in his site's flugelhorn section on tapers (including French taper), and also instructs buyers to specify which shank they need when buying his flugel pieces, I suspect that delano is correct.
I have Couesnon and Mahillon flugels which take French taper shanks, and I have Warburton and Curry flugel mouthpieces with French shanks. Both mouthpieces fit both flugelhorns very precisely without my having taken the step of sending any mouthpipes out to the mouthpiece makers. I think French shank sizing is pretty well standardized, so I don't think you have to worry about fit.
Like cheiden, I would not recommend that you ream out your horn's mouthpipe. There are aftermarket vendors selling improved flugel mouthpipes that take Morse tapers (for example, Charlie Melk designed improved Couesnon and Olds pipes in collaboration with Gary Radtke; I have some of these and they work very well). I'm not sure if anyone has done the same thing for Besson flugels, but I'd look into it if that's the route you'd like to take. |
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B. Scriver
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Flip Oakes
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Location: Oceanside, CA USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| Don Herman rev2 wrote: | | Mark Curry and Flip Oakes make mouthpieces in all of the standard tapers including French. |
Flip Oakes Mouthpieces can be found here... All Tapers
https://flipoakes.com/accessories/mouthpieces/
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loil
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Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 335
Location: Marseille - France
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: Re: French taper Flugel mouthpiece advice |
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| Shipham_Player wrote: |
I’ve tried it with an HT3Jazz Trumpet mouthpiece which doesn’t fit great but the horn still sounds really good but I appreciate it should really have a properly fitting french taper Flugel mouthpiece.
Does anyone play one (or similar like a vintage Couesnon) and what piece do you use? I’ve thought of maybe a Curry 3FL or maybe try Trent Austin for a custom piece?
I’m based in the UK so limited chance to try anything before buying as not sure anyone stocks any French Taper pieces in UK.
Any advice would be appreciated thanks. |
Hi Shipham
The HT3 is a TRUMPET mouthpiece, as you've noticed; of course it won't fit any flugel.
Most of the "small " brands are manufacturing all the correct mouthpieces with the right shank, you may ask to any of those with your specs: Monette, Flip Oaks, Curry, TA etcetc.
If you're in GB, I recommand DONAT, a new 'best kept secret' in the mouthpieces world; based in the french mountains:
http://www.donat-embouchure.com/
He is a master, and a very nice guy.
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