Orchestral audition and seating process over time

Blackquill

So, I remember when Pete Margulis joined the Utah Symphony as associate principal trumpet. Then comes along Jeff Luke who knocks him down to 3rd trumpet, well actually, "assistant" principle trumpet.

A couple years ago the fourth trumpet, Nick Norton, retired. And now to fill that vacancy, they are auditioning for "second" trumpet. If this is the case, it will knock Pete down to 4th trumpet now. Are they kidding us? Do they do this because they're confident the auditioining trumpeter will be better than the players the orchestra currently has? Regardless, I just don't think this is a fair thing to do.

Thoughts?
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Andy Del · Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:48 pm Post subject:

Unless you know this is the actual fact, and the player involved feels aggrieved by this process, how can any one make a sensible comment?

There are many and varied reasons why a player may step down from a current position.

For example, I can think of a stellar player, let's call him Martin , who stepped down from principal trumpet in the orchestra he played in and spent some 15 years playing second, third and 4th parts. He then stopped playing full time (some years ago), yet reappeared just recently in a season opening program... The recently retired principal trumpet was still playing, and the new principal was at the helm... (many cooks made for a stunning concert, BTW)

Unless he's been demoted for a reason, like doing horse whinneys in Wagner or a chicken sound in a Mozart opera, you're just speculating.

Then there's each person's contract, the employment policies of the ensemble, etc. etc. etc.

To just bash the administration seems rather short sighted, unless there is specific knowledge you need to share.

cheers

Andy
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trompette229 · Veteran Member Joined: 21 Mar 2016 Posts: 203

I think you may be mistaken. Players don't knock someone out of a position. A player is hired (as an example) as principal, 2nd, etc and that is their job. A new player auditions for an opening in a section. As stated, sometimes players choose to move down the section for various reasons and can only be forced to move by a long and arduous process by management.

trapeter · New Member Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 6

JoseLindE4 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791

Thunderdome Symphony Orchestra.

Blackquill · Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:01 pm Post subject:

Thanks Travis. It's great to learn directly from a primary source! I was being overly presumptious. Good to know. I feel dumb now. Yeah, I knew that Pete played second trumpet most of the time. I had just assumed that Jeff Luke, the associate principal, was "second" trumpet, so I got the terminology mixed up. And then I got the history wrong... I just need to shut up and shut up except for trying to learn stuff!

I had assumed the order was principal, associate principal, 3rd trumpet, 4th trumpet, even though I knew that the "3rd" trumpet played 2nd with the principal, and the "4th" trumpet typically played 2nd with the associate principal. Whoops! I've seen "associate principal" positions posted on usuo.org before, which clearly indicates 2nd trumpet is something different, so I am officially double-stupid! Yep, I just need to be quiet and learn, not pretend like I know anything!

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Trumpet is for extroverts only... no, wait... Trumpet is also for introverts who need an avenue for extrovertism!

dr_trumpet · Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:24 pm Post subject:

You've already gotten the specifics from the source, but you must also know that "demoting" someone from a chair rarely happens in this modern era. In the past, yes. Today, no.

If I were in a principal position and decided the time to play that part may have passed, or the constant stress of 100% accuracy had worn on me, or I had young children and wanted to spend more time with them, it's my choice. If a position opened, and any of the above were true, I might approach management about a move to another chair. If they accepted, and it was my desire to move, it worked out great.

Check out the seating in some major orchestras in Europe, and with all of the chairs towards the top of the section vying for works, playing a lower chair there might be a better position to be in....

This from a guy who plays principal, but has played his share of all other chairs as well.

AL
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Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
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Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music

LSOfanboy · Veteran Member Joined: 08 Jul 2018 Posts: 347

Blackquill · Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:45 pm Post subject:

Now that my feelings of embarassment are gone, my bad for being insensitive regarding Pete. Thank you, Travis, for defending Pete and Nick. I can also attest that Pete is an incredible musician in both classical and jazz. Likewise, Nick was an incredible first trumpet in the symphony. What a great blessing the symphony is to the Salt Lake area.

Also, it's a relief that all is well with the orchestra and that my suspicions regarding changes in chairs in symphony orchestras were put to rest.
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Trumpet is for extroverts only... no, wait... Trumpet is also for introverts who need an avenue for extrovertism!