Best Vintage Cornets For The Money?

royjohn

Uh, or maybe just regular valve oil will be fine . . . . .

The problem with any vintage horn is that you just don't know what you will find. Some old horns had copper plated valves and these, I believe, wear quickly. If you look up the thread on Getzen valves by Brett Getzen, he goes into how the company makes their nickel plated valves and how hard the plating is. Wear tests show that these valves take a really long time to wear out. Nickel in general is great, but it depends somewhat on how the plating is done how hard it is. A friend of mine uses used valve sets to make custom horns and he says he's never seen a set of worn out Getzen valves. In the case of the SA horns, didn't I read that the last ones were made by Besson? These might have had the "microbor" valves, which were also reputed to be very good. Another issue is that you never know whether the horn in question was played a lot or put on a shelf somewhere. Condition tells you something, but high school kids are famous for destroying horns that are actually played very little. Carted around and dented to death, but the valves might be pristine inside, because high school kids don't practice. OTOH, pro players might keep the outside of the horn in great shape, but put a lot of wear on the valves. Then, with a horn that old, the valves might have been rebuilt at some point. They could be worn in [broken in], but not worn out.

As far as a mouthpiece, this is a horn in the British Brass Band tradition. It was played in the SA bands, but the sound of the era, in Britain, was a BBB sound. It doesn't have to have a Wick 4. The width depends on what is comfortable for you. What is needed is a mouthpiece with a deep V cup and probably a somewhat opened throat, like the Wicks. You can use a Wick, a Curry cornet piece with a BBC cup or a Stork cornet piece with an A or A+ cup. There are others, and if you check some of the threads on cornet mpcs, people in BBB's will be discussing what they play. These pieces will give the most authentic sound, but after a while you may decide that something a little more shallow works best for you. For example, Curry makes a VC [vintage cornet] and a DC [deep cornet] cup mpc, and each of these would be toward the authentic sound, but a bit more shallow than the BBC. I hope you and your daughter enjoy the cornet . . . . I'm only sorry I didn't come across one like it, but there's always tomorrow . . . . . as I said before, cornets are a great bargain, maybe you'll end up with a collection of them . . . . .
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

royjohn

Well, and on to other things. Vintage can be 1960's or 1890's . . . after posting about old cornets (as in 100 years old) I got to thinking and went looking on Youtube. I'm not going to go beating this horse forever. I did find a few videos of Dr. James Bovinette playing various old cornets for sale at (I think) Quality Brass. They seemed to play pretty strong and not dull and fairly well in tune. I don't doubt that a modern, large bore cornet that was made to play against other modern large bore cornets, euphoniums, etc. could play louder, but these old horns were made to play on an outdoor bandstand with 15 or 20 other instruments, so they did have to be heard.

Next Youtube stop was the Newberry Victorian Band. There are several clips of the band playing outside and the camera, and I assume the mike, were about a hundred feet from the band, but the four or five cornets are heard very clearly against the other 12 players, probably one or two to a part. The best clip, though, was Elisa Koehler playing a cornet solo on her 1891 Seefeldt cornet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OA_h9F8lpc&feature=related

I think the band is again about fifteen pieces behind her and it does not look like she is miked beyond one or two mikes at the camera picking up the whole ensemble. I'll let you judge how hard she is working and how in tune she is and how well the cornet carries over the ensemble. I do think the acoustic is very good here and that the cornet is somewhat lighter weight than a modern one and that it is perhaps less forward in some sections where the other instruments are playing pitches near Dr. Koehler's part, but, all in all, the instrument is heard very well. Now, Dr. Koehler is a very fine cornet player, but the instrument is doing its part here.

I don't know that I would play that horn in a modern BBB where folks are switching from a Besson to a Schilke or a Smith-Watkins and from a 0.460" to a 0.464" bore to gain an advantage, but I do think it plays beautifully, in tune and strongly colored and quite bright enough to cut through. It isn't dull or out of tune at all. I"m sure that there are 100 year old clunkers, but there are a number of fine brands of 100 year old cornet that play fine if well restored. At least that's what I think. You go listen and decide for yourself.
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

ChopsGone · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1793

That clip's especially nice around 3:50 - and wearing white gloves, to boot. Thanks for sharing it.
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Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls....

royjohn

I have met Elisa, several years ago at a Brass (Naturaltrumpet) workshop in Maryland, where she teaches. She's a great player. The white gloves are partly for effect, but, if I remember right, the cornet has rounded brass finger buttons and she uses the gloves so that her fingertips don't slip off of them.

I agree, very nice performance. All the instruments in the band are authentic to the Victorian period, around 1890 - 1910, I believe. Their website is here:

www.nvcb.org/

and you can read about the instruments, the players and the band itself, and find concert dates. Book them for a gig!
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

connicalman

Dale Proctor

Magne · New Member Joined: 28 Dec 2011 Posts: 7

My 1930 Olds Super Recording Bb Cornet is a fantastic instrument with an incredible sound.
It is hard to come by, if you find one it in good shape, it probably costs a lot of dollar.
In my opinion it is worth the money.
Besides its value rise with time.

Abraxas · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:28 pm Post subject:

Olds Specials...either the Tri-Tone or the early brass LA tanks. Still under $100 to the patient hunters.

jhatpro · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:22 am Post subject:

Blessing Super Artists like the one Muggsy Spanier played are excellent. Too bright for brass band but great for trad. Pretty cheap, too.
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Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

Dale Proctor · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:30 am Post subject:

Conn 5A Victor. There's a great deal on one on eBay right now. You don't see them come up for sale very often.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

Richard III · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:07 am Post subject:

Satchmo101 · Regular Member Joined: 05 Jun 2018 Posts: 22

Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Cornet

I have a 1960s version played by my dad. Superb build quality - built like a tank. If I want to doodle around this is my instrument I am drawn to. Popular for trad jazz on the UK scene back in the day. seen some decent examples for around £200 - what a bargain.

If I could figure out how to post a picture I would include it.

Dale Proctor · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:50 pm Post subject:

Richard III · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:58 pm Post subject:

Abraxas · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:11 pm Post subject:

I did not see that in current or completed listings.

Dale Proctor · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:40 pm Post subject:

It was sold. I just saw it in the completed listings. I thought about buying it when I saw it yesterday, but I need another cornet like I need another hole in my head.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

Abraxas · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:10 pm Post subject:

Dale Proctor · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:19 pm Post subject:

I think I have about 8 cornets now, but only one orifice capable of playing one...
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

Crazy Finn · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:57 pm Post subject:

Missed it. If I had seen that, I'd probably have bitten on that. I have a 5A, but it's currently in the process of getting fixed up. Maybe I'll see it again, someday...
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn