• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

How to Play Louder


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Fundamentals
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Schilkes22
Veteran Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 203
Location: Ephrata,Pa

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:09 pm    Post subject: How to Play Louder Reply with quote

I'm volunteering some time with a local high school marching band. Over the summer I helped them with getting the correct notes,style etc. Now hat the show is on the field, We've noticed an issue with the balance. The section as a whole needs to be louder, especially the 2nd's. They have a pretty decent sound, it just needs to be louder. Aside from telling them to blow harder, is there something I'm overlooking? I'm sure that part of it is equipment, but I'm pretty sure that going out and buying new horns is out of the question. Most of them are playing on Bach T-300 horns and 7Cish mouthpieces.
Thanks in advance.
_________________
I wish I was as good as I thought I was !!!
Schilke S22
Yamaha 631 Flugel
Warburton Mouthpieces
Berklee '95
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brassmusician
Veteran Member


Joined: 25 Feb 2016
Posts: 273

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

make the other sections play softer? (half kidding).
_________________
Cannonball 789RL
Yamaha 635ST
Yamaha 16C4
Wick 2BFL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sharkbaitboi
Veteran Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2018
Posts: 104
Location: Antarctica Symphony

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clean their leadpipes

Last edited by Sharkbaitboi on Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:24 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
deleted_user_680e93b
New Member


Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: How to Play Louder Reply with quote

Schilkes22 wrote:
I'm volunteering some time with a local high school marching band. Over the summer I helped them with getting the correct notes,style etc. Now hat the show is on the field, We've noticed an issue with the balance. The section as a whole needs to be louder, especially the 2nd's. They have a pretty decent sound, it just needs to be louder. Aside from telling them to blow harder, is there something I'm overlooking? I'm sure that part of it is equipment, but I'm pretty sure that going out and buying new horns is out of the question. Most of them are playing on Bach T-300 horns and 7Cish mouthpieces.
Thanks in advance.


This may sound silly, but it works, make sure their horns are up and make them "AIM" their sound further away in the distance. it is a visual link to the brain that should help them play louder. If they are aiming at a conductor on a stand, tell them to aim 50 yards past him or her for example.

good luck,

tom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brad361
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: How to Play Louder Reply with quote

KRELL1960 wrote:
Schilkes22 wrote:
I'm volunteering some time with a local high school marching band. Over the summer I helped them with getting the correct notes,style etc. Now hat the show is on the field, We've noticed an issue with the balance. The section as a whole needs to be louder, especially the 2nd's. They have a pretty decent sound, it just needs to be louder. Aside from telling them to blow harder, is there something I'm overlooking? I'm sure that part of it is equipment, but I'm pretty sure that going out and buying new horns is out of the question. Most of them are playing on Bach T-300 horns and 7Cish mouthpieces.
Thanks in advance.


This may sound silly, but it works, make sure their horns are up and make them "AIM" their sound further away in the distance. it is a visual link to the brain that should help them play louder. If they are aiming at a conductor on a stand, tell them to aim 50 yards past him or her for example.

good luck,

tom


That doesn’t sound silly at all. One thing I notice in school band programs is very little mention of the fact that a trumpet is directional. Playing at a downward angle might not be a huge issue in concert band, but when you get outdoors and need projection, it is. You can also tell the kids to aim about 15 degrees above horizontal all the time, and raise toward the press box for stronger passages. Contrary to some opinions, you can play with power AND maintain good tone quality and intonation, “loud” doesn’t necessarily equal strident or forced.

Now I can hardly wait for the “marching band sucks” comments....😉

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sharkbaitboi
Veteran Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2018
Posts: 104
Location: Antarctica Symphony

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marching band sux.. There. Now you dont have to wait
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Robert P
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2578

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Sharkbaitboi mentioned having a gunked-up horn absolutely with cut down the resonance. The mouthpiece will make a difference. If someone asked me to play a note and loud/bright/cutting was the only critieria my Bach commercial 3S would be what I'd go to.

As far as technique, to play louder besides pumping the bellows harder your teeth and throat will/should open a bit more as well. And they need to practice playing louder - the muscles involved in driving the air work harder and there's more embouchure tension.
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C

Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo

Chinese Flugel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HaveTrumpetWillTravel
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 1019
Location: East Asia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clearer articulation may help too. Also try working on breathing/projection.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8965
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They also have to have the concept of projection and that "projection" and "loudness" are not synonymous terms.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kevin_soda
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 558
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
They also have to have the concept of projection and that "projection" and "loudness" are not synonymous terms.



+1
_________________
Kevin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Al Innella
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 751
Location: Levittown NY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
They also have to have the concept of projection and that "projection" and "loudness" are not synonymous terms.


+2! I tell students to play with a full projecting focused tone,not a loud sound.If you fill the horn you fill the room.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kalijah
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sound has loudness and tone quality. There is no "projection" separate from loudness and quality. All sound "projects" or transmits. This is not something the player can control. Loudness and quality ARE controlled by the player.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8965
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but for a lot of students and amateur players, louder deceitfully equals projection.

You can have two different sounds at the same volume but to some players this will also include overblowing or distorted tone quality and, hence, not carry as well. And for another one, because his sound contains more body, he can be heard better at less volume.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
boog
Veteran Member


Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you listened to the players individually? I know this takes time, but if you are helping the band program on a temporary basis, there must be another director or two around. Make sure that each player is playing as loud as the others, and doing it correctly, without bad and blatty tone, and with good intonation. I know, this is a tall order for an outdoor ensemble, especially during maneuvering, but it will make a LOT of difference in the group sound. Walk around and listen to the kids individually when they are on the field practicing...

I used to tell my brasses that we have a concrete wall in front of us, and we need to move it. This was common advice among corps brass instructors back in the 70's...

My marching bands were loud, when required. My ears have suffered from years of this kind of abuse!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pete
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2001
Posts: 1739
Location: Western Massachusetts

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The horn projects much better when you are not trying to play at maximum volume: (which translates to mean as hard as you can blow!)

Over-blowing sends the sound sideways instead of forward. We all fall into this trap at times. Playing at 70-80% of your maximum output is ideal. It is a difficult concept to accept because it doesn't appear to be logical.

Pete


Last edited by Pete on Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trombino
Veteran Member


Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 366
Location: Pittsburgh

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Point the bell up, the mouthpiece slides down such that there’s no upper lip in the mouthpiece, and presto whammo you’ve just killed your trumpet section. You can’t play the trumpet with one lip. As far as playing louder...fast(er) air produces loud and slow air produces soft. This assumes that both lips are sharing the workload.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8965
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mind may also play a part. While the example is outdoor playing, the following shows how the mental concept plays a role.

I was at a big band recording session one day sitting next to a guy who had played lead with a number of known bands. I was blowing my guts out and the lead would shout in the rests, "louder, louder!".

Finally, I had about as much as I could take and yelled back, "Man, I'm blowing as loud as I can . . I'm sitting right next to you and I can barely hear you". He said his sound concept was of sending out a corkscrew of sound; that it would be heard on the recording.

Sure enough, when we listened to the playback, he was crystal clear. Have a clear, definitive mental image.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trumpetteacher1
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 3398
Location: Garland, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no simple answer to the OP's question.

About half of the players will simply need to practice playing louder. Work with them one-on-one in the practice room. Show them by example. For those players, it will be a revelation how loud they actually need to play.

The other half will need to find a better balance point in their chops. These are the players who are blowing very hard, but not much is coming out. To correct this takes time and teaching skill.

Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
cheiden
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8910
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My son's in high school and the director and section leader put a premium on loud. To my ears, their overzealous attempts to be louder result in a tone that doesn't project well at all.

I once saw an awesome video put out by Yamaha. It featured who I believe was a NY Met player. He offered what I considered a very compelling case for achieving maximum projection without overblowing and that blowing harder than the player can control will always be counterproductive.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ohnecael
Regular Member


Joined: 16 Mar 2018
Posts: 75
Location: Fort Wayne IN

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: How to Play Louder Reply with quote

How is their tuning? are they always as in tune as they can be? How well do they support their sound from thier diaphragm? Best advice i can give from being at a Blue Stars Drum Corps camp is that you open the throat, mentally think about your sound projecting and relax. Number one thing is they have to relax because if they tense up they get out of tune and shrill. The goal for them right now is tuning and just overall feel the projection. Tell them to open up their chest and throats more. Also check horn angles if it isnt 15 degrees above parrallel then they are wrong.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Fundamentals All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group