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PacoTheTrumpeter Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2005 Posts: 278 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:18 am Post subject: |
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ohnecael wrote: | How is their tuning? are they always as in tune as they can be? How well do they support their sound from thier diaphragm? Best advice i can give from being at a Blue Stars Drum Corps camp is that you open the throat, mentally think about your sound projecting and relax. Number one thing is they have to relax because if they tense up they get out of tune and shrill. The goal for them right now is tuning and just overall feel the projection. Tell them to open up their chest and throats more. Also check horn angles if it isnt 15 degrees above parrallel then they are wrong. |
What is this, 1843? The diaphragm only functions actively during inhalation, and has no role whatsoever in sound production or "support." Also, thanks to the Valsalva maneuver and associated tension, no amount of telling someone to open his or her throat is going to result in an unforced and resonant sound, or for that matter, in an "open" throat. I'm not even going to get into how ridiculous and harmful it is to mess with bell angles for a tremendous percentage of players. No wonder most of us struggle with the trumpet, with such persistent misinformation being disseminated... |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:47 am Post subject: |
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PacoTheTrumpeter wrote: | I'm not even going to get into how ridiculous and harmful it is to mess with bell angles for a tremendous percentage of players... |
Horn angle is a critical component of the marching band aesthetic. It shouldn’t upset the embouchure if the focus is on overall posture and not just the tip of the bell. This won’t solve the “loudness” problem but it shouldn’t hurt. Also, field turf isn’t the most reflective surface so it will absorb sound. Anyone care to argue that? _________________ Kevin |
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oldenick Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2007 Posts: 103 Location: Naugatuck CT
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: |
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This exercise was given to me in college when I was playing 2nd on Beethoven 9 with the principal players from the local symphony. I was flat out not loud enough.
I was given half note exercises from the front of the Arban but any phrase will work.
Play an 8 bar phrase at full volume right up to the point of the sound breaking up.
Then repeat the phrase as softly as possible.
Play again at full volume. Your fortissimo will be louder and your sound will be better. Repeat but don’t overdo it.
In time your loud gets louder without sacrificing a good sound.
Worked for me and my students. Don’t see why it wouldn’t work with a section.
Good Luck
Nick _________________ Lawler PS1
Curry 3C 3*
Play The Ink |
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PacoTheTrumpeter Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2005 Posts: 278 Location: New York, New York, USA
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:11 am Post subject: |
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I have zero concern for the marching band aesthetic. My concern is for the quality of musical sound, and how easy and efficient sound production is for a player. I am not particularly concerned about the embouchure, per se, either. A cursory examination of what happens to one's sound when adjusting the angle of the upper body up and down or from side to side should be enough to show anyone with a decent quality sound and working ears that every postural change has an audible consequence. Only in one or possibly a few basic positions can any trumpeter play with maximum efficiency, and only for a relatively small number of people will that be a position that fits the marching band aesthetic. If you want to intentionally spend time in bizarre positions that are detrimental to your development as a trumpet player and that sap your resonance, so be it, but please don't pretend there are not negative effects for a significant number of physical types. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9014 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:43 am Post subject: |
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I'm having a little problem following this thread. PacoTheTrumpeter, what weird configuration and what post are you referring to? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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If horn angle and comfort is an issue, mouthpieces can be bent by good repairmen for not a lot of money.
I would start with quality of sound. There's a spot in every note that is efficient, resonant, easy, and jumps out of the horn. Sometimes this is referred to as the "center." Bending a note up and down until it rings out usually is a revelation for the player. They often aren't really sure what a trumpet should sound like behind the bell. One they find that sound, have them chase it always. |
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Nate Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2018 Posts: 31
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Might the playing register have any bearing? -- that is, the high playing is being heard more than the lower parts? I hear that in some of the groups in which I've played. I also wonder if more horns might be helpful -- or at least more 2nds (if they can find them), esp. if the more accomplished or mature players are playing first? |
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bike&ed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Nate wrote: | Might the playing register have any bearing? -- that is, the high playing is being heard more than the lower parts? I hear that in some of the groups in which I've played. I also wonder if more horns might be helpful -- or at least more 2nds (if they can find them), esp. if the more accomplished or mature players are playing first? |
Yeah both of these seem likely, 1 stronger player on 1st part can likely easily drown out multiple weaker players on 2nd and 3rd. So if you do like most HS bands do and put all of your strongest players on 1st, because they’re the only ones who can play high enough to reach the 1st part range anyway, the result and fairly predictable. It won’t be solved by asking (or even coaching) the current 2nd/3rd players to play louder... |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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1) Work on a clear and ringing tone. I think it carries better.
2) Work in intonation. Sections and ensembles are louder when pitches line up.
Never blow so hard that 1) or 2) take a hit.
Also, my teacher likes to say that you can't tune a bad tone, and I believe him.
3) Balance soft practice, flexibilities and an otherwise well-rounded routine against loud to refine the embouchure. Too much loud/high and the chops spread making everything harder.
Add me to the list of those critical of insisting on a high horn angle. Sure it makes a difference in competitive marching, but when it seems obvious that it can stunt the development of some players, the choice is easy. Unless you're marching DCI, put the bell where it objectively works best for the player. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Schilkes22 Veteran Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Posts: 203 Location: Ephrata,Pa
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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Horns are now clean. I've really been focusing on intonation and helping them hear it for themselves. They are making some improvement. I have also come to the conclusion that they( the younger ones) have never been asked to play loud before. I'm pretty sure that they had never tried it. Thanks for all the help. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something I was missing. _________________ I wish I was as good as I thought I was !!!
Schilke S22
Yamaha 631 Flugel
Warburton Mouthpieces
Berklee '95 |
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Sharkbaitboi Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2018 Posts: 104 Location: Antarctica Symphony
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Next step is to buy them Monette mouthpieces. Thatll do the trick |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Sharkbaitboi wrote: | Next step is to buy them Monette mouthpieces. Thatll do the trick |
LOL! _________________ Kevin |
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