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Learning Trombone



 
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ohnecael
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Location: Fort Wayne IN

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:42 am    Post subject: Learning Trombone Reply with quote

My school has problems getting trombones to join any of our after school jazz ensembles and I have taken on the task of learning how to play tombone because you can never learn too many instruments. I have no idea where to start since I have no trombone books like I did when I learned tuba. Any suggestions would help on how can undertake a task
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jazz_trpt
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no expert, but the seven positions on the slide correspond directly to the seven valve common combinations (i.e., middle line G down to C# below the staff).

So,

Position 1 = "open" (no valves down)
Position 2 = valve 2 down
Position 3 = valve 1 down
Position 4 = valves 1-2 down
Position 5 = valves 2-3 down
Position 6 = valves 1-3 down
Position 7 = valves 1-2-3 down

As with trumpet, of course, the higher the register you're playing, the greater the number of positions that can be used to produce a given pitch.

HTH
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to develop a trombone-friendly embouchure and learn the positions, simple.

Do long tones, interval and scale exercises, etc. Basically the same as on trumpet. This'll get you started. http://vmv.ventspils.lv/wp-content/uploads/TromboneStartup.pdf

As far as slide positions, do a web search.

Background: I played Trombone in a North Texas Lab Band.
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delano
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some common things about slide trombones:

there are indeed seven positions of the slide:

https://www.normans.co.uk/blog/2014/08/trombone-notes-positions/

Though the slide trombone is pitched in B-flat it behaves in scores like a C instrument so written C = C concert pitch, so all the notes mentioned below are concert pitch;

the normal writing for trombone is in bass clef but in classical music the tenor clef and the alto clef (when first part is written for alto trombone) are also sometimes in use;

because there are no valves, fast playing needs a perfect tonguing: for classical use fast single tonguing and double- and triple tonguing, for other (jazz, commercial) fast single and doodle tonguing. This is important and deserves lots of practice!

on the slide trombone there is a widespread use of alternate positions like alternate fingering on the trumpet. So the middle F is often taken in 6th position, middle Bflat in 5th and so on. This has also to do with what is called 'natural binding', when slide down, tone up or slide up, tone down. P.a. from middle G (4th position) up to Bflat (now 5th position). Or up from Bflat (1st) to C (3d) up to D (4th) and back. Makes more speed possible. In the high register (from high Aflat up you can do everything with the first three positions (for even more speed).

For tuning: D above middle Bflat always in 4th position, in first it will be too low. High Aflat in third, same. G below this one can be played in an uptuned second position.
Low C and B have the same problem as on trumpet, they are too high so you will have to stretch the 6th position for an in tune C and the 7th position for B. (Lower notes with an F attachment behave the same way).

Range: slotting is up to high F (is the same note as G on topline on trumpet) but for normal orchestral use playing up to C or better D for the first chair is enough. Pedals are quite easy on a trombone.

Maybe I forgot something, ask.

Background: I played for over twenty years trombone, first classical (but didn't like to wait 233 bars to play a few notes), later bigbands (first and second chair) and trad.
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ohnecael
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Joined: 16 Mar 2018
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Location: Fort Wayne IN

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
You need to develop a trombone-friendly embouchure and learn the positions, simple.

Do long tones, interval and scale exercises, etc. Basically the same as on trumpet. This'll get you started. http://vmv.ventspils.lv/wp-content/uploads/TromboneStartup.pdf

As far as slide positions, do a web search.

Background: I played Trombone in a North Texas Lab Band.


Thanks for the book to work through and thanks for some basic stuff to work on. the thing that throws me off is just the slide and the leanancy for tuning on trombone. I love the sound but the no valves thing is kinda weird.
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MathewCox
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the trombone is one of the hardest brass instruments to play, just because if your slide positioning is off just a little bit, you won't be in tune...On youtube there is a lot of material to learn the basics and positions, you should try there
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delano
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MathewCox wrote:
the trombone is one of the hardest brass instruments to play, just because if your slide positioning is off just a little bit, you won't be in tune...On youtube there is a lot of material to learn the basics and positions, you should try there


First, I am really impressed that you are able to play all brass instruments on a level to make this kind of comparison.
Second, I have firmly to disagree with your outcome. The trombone is by far the easiest of the tutti brass horns: trumpet, trombone and French horn. This is from own experience and I can explain this.
I am not sure about alto horn, baritone and the like. Maybe low brass is easier to learn in the beginning.
A little displacement of the slide can be a problem in the first two or three months that you play the slide trombone, after that it will not happen and you will be able to blow through it. On fast runs the slide will never be exactly in the right position without any influence on the intonation. The notes are played on the run.
In the past (and sometimes still now) jazz and commercial trombonists used a slide movement of 4 inches (and more) to make their vibrato.
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ohnecael
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Location: Fort Wayne IN

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
MathewCox wrote:
the trombone is one of the hardest brass instruments to play, just because if your slide positioning is off just a little bit, you won't be in tune...On youtube there is a lot of material to learn the basics and positions, you should try there


First, I am really impressed that you are able to play all brass instruments on a level to make this kind of comparison.
Second, I have firmly to disagree with your outcome. The trombone is by far the easiest of the tutti brass horns: trumpet, trombone and French horn. This is from own experience and I can explain this.
I am not sure about alto horn, baritone and the like. Maybe low brass is easier to learn in the beginning.
A little displacement of the slide can be a problem in the first two or three months that you play the slide trombone, after that it will not happen and you will be able to blow through it. On fast runs the slide will never be exactly in the right position without any influence on the intonation. The notes are played on the run.
In the past (and sometimes still now) jazz and commercial trombonists used a slide movement of 4 inches (and more) to make their vibrato.



IMO from the Tutti brass horns i can play the tuba was the easiest for me to pick up and start shredding on. I love the tuba as much as i love the trumpet. Trombone by far is the hardest for me to really get quick just because of the embouchure for me now. It really works your muscles.
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Gawis
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Joined: 17 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I learned trombone as an adult a year ago. I’m far from teachers not to mention that music this side of the world is not for earning a living. It’s my 1st Brass I was lucky a friend gave me an old one so I had enough time to practice. I mostly only played on the original positions for the first year. While I’m trying to sometimes exclusively play alternate positions for an entire session, this requires additional alertness and certainty when anticipating the next note. However sometimes one just have to play e.g position 5 when playing in difficult keys Db up and sharps. While I initially focused on flat keys from F to A flat. I now focus on the difficult keys for example B (5 sharps), DB and agh at almost all practice sessions. I read somebody said practicing scales exclusively should be avoided, however that is my main focus. When you see those notes in a song, it’s just amazing how easy it will feel. Most technical studies I use have different rhythms which I initially do slowly move up with metronome. You can find arban, studies for trombone by kopprasch, etc on the archive website which you can download. I also downloaded the 2 hymnals here where you choose challenging keys, etc. http://www.tenorposaune.com/sheetmusic/a-trombonists-hymnal/

I’m now also learning trumpet so I can improve transcribing songs for the band. What also helped me was frequent playing with a community band.
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