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Wynton's Bach


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Sharkbaitboi
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to admit that there’s a night and day difference between his sound on Bach and Monette. You don’t just sound like a Monette on a Bach
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharkbaitboi wrote:
You have to admit that there’s a night and day difference between his sound on Bach and Monette. You don’t just sound like a Monette on a Bach


Not sure about night and day, but I do hear some difference. But what Monette and what era are you comparing? In the 80s he played a Vindabonna Bach. He switched to a Monette STC Bb. He doesn't sound drastically different between the two, to my ears. Now, if you compare that 1980s Bach sound to his current Monette Prana, yes there is a difference. But the human factor is also being forgotten: sound concepts do change over time.

My main point is that I could hear his sound concept on both horns. He switched because Monette equipment makes achieving that sound easier. He still sounds like Wynton.
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wvtrumpet
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrentAustin wrote:
rmch wrote:
Quote:
Check out this clip of Wynton playing Louis Armstrong's old Selmer... Pretty cool clip on so many levels!

https://vimeo.com/213245842


That's an amazing clip, Trent - his sound has a little of Pops pointedness, forwardness and shine in it (thanks to the horn, I guess). What on earth is the mouthpiece he's playing on? It looks like the blank has a lot of added weight to the shank. Anyways, thanks for sharing it!


Tom Williams (the other trumpeter in the clip and a great player in his own right) said it was his Laskey 66C he let Wynton borrow as the Monette didn't fit into the receiver of the horn. Sounded pretty amazing considering it was a new horn and mpc combo. Wish the sound guy would have chosen a better Mic considering Wynton's style to play for the audience rather than be glued to a microphone. A decent room mic or ribbon would have been a much better choice.


I think the mpc had a curry sleeve or something on it.

Best,
T



Yeah man, Tommy sent me a text after Wynton did that. Pretty cool.
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Big Dave88
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumanjazzguy wrote:
I have never enjoyed his sound on the Monette. Way too diffuse, dull, and no high overtones. Just sounds like a bucket.



Fixed it for you.


Honestly he is a genius, the hardest worker, and national treasure.
But I cannot stand his sound now.
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blbaumgarn
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:54 pm    Post subject: Wynton's Bach Reply with quote

I remember his bach days and don't feel too much different about him on a Monette. He gets to choose his sound anyway, because he IS Wynton. As people who enjoy and listen to music he is irreplacable as an icon and performer. I actually preferred Maynard's sound before he played Monette, too, but one needs to remember Maynard was lots older when he found Monette. By that I don't mean Wynton is getting old. I will still listen to Wynton on any trumpet any time.
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Danbassin
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to post a quick challenge reply to this thread, as virtually each time it gets resurrected a handful of members of our community take it as an opportunity to Monette-bash:

Firstly, I've been playing Monette gear for years, and probably wouldn't be a trumpeter anymore if it weren't for Dave's mouthpieces, horns, and concepts.

Secondly, this thread is about Wynton's Bach - a late-70s/early-80s Vindbona model. That was established within the first few replies, and then the thread became a frustrating echo chamber for armchair quarterbacks.
-Kudos to all who note that players have sounds, not instruments.
-Also respect and shout-outs to those who note that the artist in question - arguably the most gifted trumpeter since Gabriel - has gravitated towards the equipment he's chosen in order to facilitate his musical communication; i.e. Wynton sounds like Wynton, always has. And, he's moved through various gear (the focus on this post - his Bach (and also a Holton) back in the day - through early Monette designs, through heavier Raja and Samadhi designs, back to medium-heavy, large-bell removable mouthpiece horns, through more recent, lighter-weight Raja designs) in order to most effectively communicate HIS music.

It is of mild value whether YOU like his sound now, or prefer it then, but here's my challenge:
Listen to Wynton's playing on the recent movie, BOLDEN. Here he uses a historical instrument and mouthpiece, and ends up sounding remarkably - wait for it - like Wynton! His sound shines through.

Sure, his classical recordings on Schilke instruments retain something of that Schilke sheen. Sure, his earliest recordings have certain attributes of 'The Bach Sound' but if you listen carefully to his articulations, vibrato, etc. you'll hear all of the elements he's been refining his whole career. Yes, the heaviest Rajas had the most dense core of his sound heightened, as yes, his sound on his recent Raja P3 STC and current Raja P2 STC show a bit of a difference - the lighter horn is...somewhat brighter!

But, Wynton playing Louis Armstrong's Selmer with almost any mouthpiece will sound, after a few notes, mostly like Wynton. As he does on a late 19th century cornet and mouthpiece, as he did on his decorated 900 series C Cornet he used for the Jellyroll Morton 'standard time' disc or Stravinsky's Soldier's Tale, on Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers on his earlier Monettes, and so-forth.

Let's put this thread to bed and go practice diligently, developing OUR sounds.

-DB
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BGinNJ
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Wynton's Bach Reply with quote

blbaumgarn wrote:
I remember his bach days and don't feel too much different about him on a Monette. He gets to choose his sound anyway, because he IS Wynton. As people who enjoy and listen to music he is irreplacable as an icon and performer. I actually preferred Maynard's sound before he played Monette, too, but one needs to remember Maynard was lots older when he found Monette. By that I don't mean Wynton is getting old. I will still listen to Wynton on any trumpet any time.


There's a video of WM working with school kids, he plays a kid's Yamaha and sounds like...himself. His Monette was in the shop, I have to wonder why?

As for MF, I have a couple of his last CD's, when he's on a Monette, and it sounds to me like the horn is almost accentuating his declining ability, playing with lots of vibrato, not so in-tune.
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roccotrumpetsiffredi
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not the arrow, it's the indian
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Didymus
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Wynton's Bach Reply with quote

blbaumgarn wrote:
As for MF, I have a couple of his last CD's, when he's on a Monette, and it sounds to me like the horn is almost accentuating his declining ability, playing with lots of vibrato, not so in-tune.


?!?
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doberso
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's been on Monettes for over 30 years now. I think Hot House Flowers was the last album he did on the Bach. That was 1984.
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cgaiii
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to throw a ringer in here, I preferred classical Wynton, when he played Schilke trumpets. <grin> Half in jest, but ducking for the tomatoes to be thrown.
He is an absolute genius of the trumpet as someone else said, but I always enjoyed his purity of tone rather than his muddy tone. However, I am sure it is intentional. It is the sound he wants for the music he is playing, and he is certainly entitled to his choice. I still enjoy watching him work the horn.
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaysonr wrote:
Wynton and his Monette are what made me fall in love with trumpet. I like his sound on anything from his old Bach recordings, all the Monettes he's had from the original light horns to the big Raja to the stuff he's playing now. I like his sound on the clip of him playing Louis's Selmer, and the clip of him grabbing Marcus Printup's horn at a show and playing. I like his sound on the Bach cornet, on the Schilke E and Eb, and Picc.

To me, Wynton sounds like Wynton. I don't think horns have sounds, I think people do. The horn is like a microphone that's going through a sound board and an equalizer. There are tweaks here and there, but ultimately your sound is your sound. Wynton's sound is his sound, and I love it.

One day, if I'm ever financially able, I will own a Monette trumpet, whether I can do it justice, or not.



Plus one on every point in this post. Something about that sound that I just can't get enough of. I even obsessed over the youtube video of him playing a long tone. It's gorgeous...

I am curious what Wynton's opinion on this topic is.
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veery715
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: Wynton's Bach Reply with quote

BGinNJ wrote:
blbaumgarn wrote:
I remember his bach days and don't feel too much different about him on a Monette. He gets to choose his sound anyway, because he IS Wynton. As people who enjoy and listen to music he is irreplacable as an icon and performer. I actually preferred Maynard's sound before he played Monette, too, but one needs to remember Maynard was lots older when he found Monette. By that I don't mean Wynton is getting old. I will still listen to Wynton on any trumpet any time.


There's a video of WM working with school kids, he plays a kid's Yamaha and sounds like...himself. His Monette was in the shop, I have to wonder why?
As for MF, I have a couple of his last CD's, when he's on a Monette, and it sounds to me like the horn is almost accentuating his declining ability, playing with lots of vibrato, not so in-tune.
Probably because David Monette felt the horn needed some work. He puts himself out there like that when it comes to supporting his products.

BTW, I am with thr previous posters who say WM sounds like himself on whatever horn he plays. If his tone is muddy, he wants it muddy. And his playing is pretty unmistakably his.
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cgaiii
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was very interesting to listen to the Selmer horn video. I heard flashes of all kinds Wynton Marsalis there. All distinctly Wynton, but playing out to the edges of the horn in places. Kind of fun.
Perhaps the Monette allows him to more easily do what he wants to do, but I believe what he is doing is purposeful, and he is controlling the horn, not the other way around. The best any of us can do is create the sound we want. What that sound is, if the trumpeter is in control and getting what he wants, is his or her choice. Then it is all just taste as to whether we like it or not. That is true of all the trumpeters that are really great. You may or may not like Alison Balsom's, Håkan Hardenberger's, Bud Herseth's, Miles Davis, Maynard Ferguson's, Louis Armstrong's, Arturo Sandoval's, Alan Vizzutti's or any other great player's sound, but you can be assured that they sound the way they intend to sound and have control over their instruments that is worth paying attention to.
It does not mean we want to sound like them, but we sure can admire their playing, talent and the work they have put in. That is certainly the way I think of WM on his Monette.
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american boy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wynton is an amazing trumpet player,and sounds great on every instrument I`v ever heard him play; If forced to choose,I lean more to his sound during the Wynton Standard time period,Art Blakey era;Playing Bach at that point,but the Monnette stuff is great too,so its apples and oranges to me;Fantastic musician!
Its funny but earlier in this link people were writing about Byron Strippling; I got to play some big band gigs with Byron before he left NY and that cat had a huge clear sound at that point (probably still does)..I remember after a set where he was just killing the lead book,and i was playing the 2nd book(almost needed an oxygen tank to try to match him) I took a quick peek at his equipment and I think he was playing like a 1 1/4 Bach mouthpiece and a 37 ML Bach tpt..and man he just filled it up..One of the best lead players I ever heard. Check out his stuff playing lead with Basie ..Mighty impressive and a great guy too
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JoseLindE4
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife got mad at me last night for playing the Mr. Rogers episode with Wynton too many times for my toddler. It looks like an early Monette and he sounds beautiful on it.
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cgaiii
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoseLindE4 wrote:
My wife got mad at me last night for playing the Mr. Rogers episode with Wynton too many times for my toddler. It looks like an early Monette and he sounds beautiful on it.


Very nice! If you have to make your wife mad, that is probably one of the more useful ways to do it. How did you toddler feel about it.
I need to do this for my grandson!
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WallaceLaren
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boy, would love to hear him play that Bach again. Funny story, I was at an outdoor Festival kind of far away watching the Lincoln Center jazz orchestra gradually walking out onstage and the set drummer kicked off a swing rhythm and this guy in the fourth chair trumpet section started blowing Bop for about 2 or 3 minutes and I thought wow wynton's giving this lower chair player a chance to blow some solo. come to find out it was Wynton himself! he doesn't make an entrance. he's just one of the band sitting on the end. I had to laugh...
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